You can't make this up!

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by jerome_oneil

So in other words, Phil got his, fuck you.

Well, there's another colossal failure in reading comprehension, right there is. You and Schmidt and flylooper and county ought to start a reading club. "Fox. Socks. Box. Knox." Try to go from there.

PhilB

[SAHTT]

Originally Posted by jerome_oneil

That is precisely right. Dead and sick people is the free market.



The special consideration they were given was to remove the regulation that prevented them from doing exactly what they did. In other words, the government allowed market forces (a.k.a. greed) to govern decision making.

Dead and sick people 'is' the free market? I guess if there is no motivation or incentives for people to become doctors. Or they all eat unhealthy and ride dangerous motorbikes just for fun.

That's a blanket statement without much substance. Many of my previous posts have detailed thoughts on what regulation, exchanges, etc. should be developed in response to this crisis. But if you completely ignore the federal reserve's participation in this over the last decade and the other numerous factors and dismiss it all as "greed", you are thinking foolishly. The investment banking model is dead and it's arguable if it would have ever been generated if the government hadn't given them special considerations-from that aspect you are on the right track. The blame goes on both sides, it's not all the governments fault and it's not all the firms' faults for being "greedy" either. There is no doubt we need some regulation in an industry we brought in to existence unnaturally, but "more" is not always the solution and a lot of that tinkering got us where we are today.

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by jerome_oneil

So in other words, Phil got his, fuck you.

That's funny. I read it as, "Hey, I know more than you so I don't have to back it up."

Either way, it's just smoke.

[scatterbrained]

these discussions never cease to amuse me. A lot of people with no knowledge of how our current health care system works beyond what they read in the papers or decipher from their HMOs always pushing for a government run system while the few who have inside experience of the industry are derided as idiots. Always amusing.

[scatterbrained]

these discussions never cease to amuse me. A lot of people with no knowledge of how our current health care system works beyond what they read in the papers or decipher from their HMOs always pushing for a government run system while the few who have inside experience of the industry are derided as idiots. Always amusing.

[scatterbrained]

these discussions never cease to amuse me. A lot of people with no knowledge of how our current health care system works beyond what they read in the papers or decipher from their HMOs always pushing for a government run system while the few who have inside experience of the industry are derided as idiots. Always amusing.

[baldheadeddork]

You should probably master the post button before you get so smug about understanding the economics of the health care system.

Just sayin'.

[baldheadeddork]

Originally Posted by PhilB

Yeah, and take alook at how the VA system is actually run and the quality of care they're actually getting. Seen the scandals of the last few years?

I hate to lecture someone so knowledgeable as yourself, but the scandals like Walter Reed were in the DOD's health care system. That's separate from the VA.

[bassjones]

Originally Posted by PhilB

The biggest problem with our healthcare system is that there are no incentives for either doctors or insurance companies to make the patients happy. The doctors primarily work for (i.e. get paid by) the insurance companies. The insurance companies primarily work for (i.e. get paid by) the H.R. departments of employers. Getting rid of the perverse tax incentives that have made this happen would help get us to where the insurance companies would have to compete for customers and would then have some incentive to make them reasonably happy with their coverage.

Neither party has said word one about addressing this.

The second biggest problem with our healthcare system is that our healthcare system is carrying the cost of the majority of the world's medical development, due to the socialized systems in most other wealthy countries.

Neither party has said word one about addressing this either.

One party wants to keep the current fuckup; the other wants to replace it with an even bigger fuckup. Yay.

Once again, well past time for alternative parties and some reality-based approaches to our problems.

PhilB

Yes, let's turn it over to the government to run instead. The same government that bankrupted medicare/medicaid, social security, runs the VA hospitals, refused to act on Fanny Mae/Freddy Mac, and generally screws up everything it touches, that's exactly who I want in charge of my healthcare. Next to the idea of that bunch of reprobates running healthcare my HMO almost seems consumer friendly.

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by baldheadeddork

I hate to lecture someone so knowledgeable as yourself, but the scandals like Walter Reed were in the DOD's health care system. That's separate from the VA.

Oh, well that makes it all right then. Vindicates the whole idea.

But it still was government run healthcare. And the VA is also full of horror stories. And it sucks to be on Medicare/Medicaid. Yeah I want my healthcare run like the IRS or the DMV or the DOD or the Homeland Security Dept or <pick any other one>. Whee.

If the federal government was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there'd be shortages of sand in five years.

PhilB

[robert_s_hunter]

Anyone who thinks the VA health care system is a brilliant example of doing things right has their head firmly ensconced in their ass.

When my dad came down with pneumonia, the VA medical center was more than happy to schedule him an appointment for nearly three months later. A simple call elsewhere got me a response of, "How soon can you get him here?"

Yep, we could use more of that VA quality... And to think they've actually had the nerve to ask why he hasn't come to them for more of his health care needs.

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by PhilB

Oh, well that makes it all right then. Vindicates the whole idea.
PhilB

You get caught making a freshman mistake that changes the entire point of your claim and you have the temerity to be snotty? Are you serious?

Originally Posted by PhilB

If the federal government was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there'd be shortages of sand in five years.

PhilB

If Repubs were in office. Libertammys too, I'd suppose, since there isn't a millimeter between them.

Basically these kinds of problems happen when the party in power doesn't respect the institution they are charged to run.

[jerome_oneil]

Originally Posted by PhilB

Well, there's another colossal failure in reading comprehension, right there is. You and Schmidt and flylooper and county ought to start a reading club. "Fox. Socks. Box. Knox." Try to go from there.

PhilB

Your biggest complaint seems to be that R&D would suffer as a result of single payer. That you make your living as a consultant to R&D to the pharmas I'm sure has no bearing on that.

That R&D was something that was, and is, done in the university system, is probably irrelevant to the discussion.

As I said, Phil got his, fuck you.

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by jerome_oneil

Your biggest complaint seems to be that R&D would suffer as a result of single payer. That you make your living as a consultant to R&D to the pharmas I'm sure has no bearing on that.

That R&D was something that was, and is, done in the university system, is probably irrelevant to the discussion.

As I said, Phil got his, fuck you.

That's one of the complaints, yes. Largely cutting off future medical advances in exchange for the "advantage" of getting to screwup our current system even worse seems the worst of all worlds to me.

Some of the basic R&D is done in the university system. By no means all. And the gap between the level of work done at the basic university level and the level that makes a product on the market is HUGE and expensive. All of that work is done and paid for by private companies and investors, except for the occasional drug of military use that gets funded by them.

Yeah, if the industry is destroyed, that will hurt me. As well as millions of other people, both workers and patients. Which is my point.

So again you have no idea what you're talking about, nor apparently any idea what I'm talking about.

PhilB

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

You get caught making a freshman mistake that changes the entire point of your claim and you have the temerity to be snotty? Are you serious?

I said "scandals". HE jumped to the assumption that I meant specifically Walter Reed, which was the biggest one and yes, was at a *different* government healthcare system. Which (a) doesn't change the point of my claim at all, and (b) doesn't even mean I was wrong in the first place.

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

If Repubs were in office. Libertammys too, I'd suppose, since there isn't a millimeter between them.

Basically these kinds of problems happen when the party in power doesn't respect the institution they are charged to run.

If lack of comprehension was an Olympic event, you'd be Michael Phelps.

PhilB