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Politics & ReligionWell Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.
In other words, the entire point of Christian theology is to convince people that nothing they can do can resolve themselves of sins they didn't personally commit
No. You're missing the point. It has *nothing to do with what you do.* It has to do with your nature, which is to sin.
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, yet are nonetheless guilty of, and will suffer eternal damnation for unless they profess loyalty to a deity who's existence is without a single shred of physical proof. That about sum it up? Can you honestly not see the manipulation here?
No. You can make any choice you wish. If you chose to see the story as painted by those that wish to exert control over you, then that is still your choice.
Running around demanding "proof" of anything, let alone religion, is flat out dumb. There is no proof of anything, except in math and vodka. All you ever get is evidence.
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Let me ask, what happens to children who die during child birth? Do they all go straight to hell, since they never achieved the cognitive ability to profess their love, acceptance and devotion to god, yet were nonetheless guilty of sin?
Jesus was pretty specific on how he felt about children. You should check up on that.
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Sounds like a heck of a gamble to me. To many people die without knowing it's coming. I wouldn't want my eternal soul based on that bet, that's for sure.
Truly man. It's certainly not something I'd recommend, especially for a sportbike rider.
As to this nice (I'm glad it stayed that way) and informed little back and forth we've had: this truly highlights little differences in Christianity today and goes toward answering the question of why there are so many Christian churches.
It also makes our discussion with username somewhat difficult. He's been throwing down things (like children are born sinners and will be sent to hell if they die in childbirth) that some Christians really do believe and yet others don't.
No. You're missing the point. It has *nothing to do with what you do.* It has to do with your nature, which is to sin.
That's exactly my point - that it has nothing to do with what I do or have done. It has everything to do with controlling people by accusing them of something they have no ability to defend against, and threatening their everlasting soul with eternal damnation as punishment. No one would accept such an unfounded accusation (and conviction without evidence) from a government, so why are they so willing to accept exactly that from religion?
Fear, plain and simple. That is what lies at the center of religion.
In other words, the entire point of Christian theology is to convince people that nothing they can do can resolve themselves of sins they didn't personally commit, yet are nonetheless guilty of, and will suffer eternal damnation for unless they profess loyalty to a deity who's existence is without a single shred of physical proof. That about sum it up? Can you honestly not see the manipulation here?
Let me ask, what happens to children who die during child birth? Do they all go straight to hell, since they never achieved the cognitive ability to profess their love, acceptance and devotion to god, yet were nonetheless guilty of sin?
It's a belief system that gives people hope. A hope that they can better themselves and be of usefulness to being much greater than themselves and therefore be more useful to society.
We all have to believe in something if we have hope. Scientists believe that they can achieve a certain goal through many hours of research. That belief give scientists hope when they reach a stumbling point. Hope gives them the willpower move beyond that point. Willpower and perseverance will eventually yield results.
Christians believe that all sin and through the grace of God and only through the grace of God, can we be absolved of all our sins. Rather than question their belief system in hope to make them stumble, let us show respect and humility and encourage them to be the best person they can be. No one likes to be ridiculed for what they believe in.
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<coffee> OMG OMG I HAF D GREEN FONT HERE! LUKZ @ ME! WHEEEEEE!
</coffee>
The Parable of the Sower, Matthew 13:1-9, Mark 4:1-9 and Luke 4-10
This parable is the key to understanding the rest of the parables in that you will see that there will be and has been the seed who does not take root and those who do, believe or not believe, continue or fall away.
There is a category of people who would be confused with true believers. These are those who appear to have been saved and to have become children of God, but have reverted to the world and continue in its ways. For instance ..." when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root; which for a while believe ... denotes a different meaning for the word "believe." It should not be confused as the exercise of true faith in Jesus Christ which transforms a person's life. This "belief" is merely an intellectual assent. Not simply giving reference to a repentant heart, but to an obedient heart toward God which causes them to do righteousness and to hate sin (Romans 5:19). These who have no deep roots are the ones who profess faith, but do not possess Christ.
To see how one stands in the eyes of God just look at the Ten Commandments. These are not God's ten suggestions. They are a mirror to see ones true self. It is interesting in the thread after I listed them that no one said a word about knowing them and or trying to keep them. If you have broken even one you have broken them all.
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FORREALQUICK
Last edited by Stan Miller : 08-07-2008 at 07:52 PM.
This is why I stopped being interested in religion, endless parsing of biblical passages made my eyes cross then and it still does now.
__________________
The rat always knows when he's in with weasels. Here you lose a little every day.
I remember when a million was a million. They all have ways to make you pay.
~ Tom Waits
Thank god I'm not cool, I can do anything I want ~ Fourstring Gewsleesta
This is why I stopped being interested in religion, endless parsing of biblical passages made my eyes cross then and it still does now.
Well, that's just people. Stick with the major concepts and don't sweat the small stuff. And if you want organized religion, go with Unitarian Universalist or United Church of Christ....very flexible folks.
No one likes to be ridiculed for what they believe in.
I don't really get much of a positive charge out of being told I'm going to eternal damnation for not believing what someone else believes in either. *shrug*
__________________
The rat always knows when he's in with weasels. Here you lose a little every day.
I remember when a million was a million. They all have ways to make you pay.
~ Tom Waits
Thank god I'm not cool, I can do anything I want ~ Fourstring Gewsleesta
Well, that's just people. Stick with the major concepts and don't sweat the small stuff. And if you want organized religion, go with Unitarian Universalist or United Church of Christ....very flexible folks.
Yep, if I ever feel like attending services again I'll head over to Unie congregation over in West Seattle. If I ever get the Guzzi back together though I'll be riding on Sundays.
__________________
The rat always knows when he's in with weasels. Here you lose a little every day.
I remember when a million was a million. They all have ways to make you pay.
~ Tom Waits
Thank god I'm not cool, I can do anything I want ~ Fourstring Gewsleesta
I don't really get much of a positive charge out of being told I'm going to eternal damnation for not believing what someone else believes in either. *shrug*
Indeed. My statement goes both ways. I'm not a Christian either. If I have been told that (believe me, I HAVE been told that), I accept that as their belief and respect that. Eventually, they'll stop saying it and respect my belief or they'll get tired of saying it and go away. Either way works for me
__________________
<coffee> OMG OMG I HAF D GREEN FONT HERE! LUKZ @ ME! WHEEEEEE!
</coffee>
The Parable of the Sower, Matthew 13:1-9, Mark 4:1-9 and Luke 4-10
This parable is the key to understanding the rest of the parables in that you will see that there will be and has been the seed who does not take root and those who do, believe or not believe, continue or fall away.
There is a category of people who would be confused with true believers. These are those who appear to have been saved and to have become children of God, but have reverted to the world and continue in its ways. For instance ..." when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root; which for a while believe ... denotes a different meaning for the word "believe." It should not be confused as the exercise of true faith in Jesus Christ which transforms a person's life. This "belief" is merely an intellectual assent. Not simply giving reference to a repentant heart, but to an obedient heart toward God which causes them to do righteousness and to hate sin (Romans 5:19). These who have no deep roots are the ones who profess faith, but do not possess Christ.
To see how one stands in the eyes of God just look at the Ten Commandments. These are not God's ten suggestions. They are a mirror to see ones true self. It is interesting in the thread after I listed them that no one said a word about knowing them and or trying to keep them. If you have broken even one you have broken them all.
So...really...how many angels can fit on the head of a pin?
Well, I have been wondering for a while now and never really asked before but why do some think going to church on Sunday is necessary to get into heaven?
I have known a few people and have 1 friend who believes it is necessary to go to church every Sunday to get into heaven. What is so special? Does the bible say one must go to an organized place of worship every Sunday? Is it about "enlightenment" where you must go to church to learn about god or something?
My take is that your'e envious of those of us who are members of a community who can gather together to worship and praise our God. I have to wonder why you even care. Believe if you want or don't believe if you want. But it's none of your concern or business why we believe in what we do.
Any pastor worth his salt would have said something. Pastors are charged with the spiritual well being of their congregations, and as such, will and should take an active roll if they know someone they care about is committing adultery.
