What's the difference between changing one's position and flip floping?

[Baldrick]

He (his campaign staff?) couldn't stand the truth, I guess, so she was removed...

[SXSMITH]

Originally Posted by Trash

I won't take that bet.

Hey about his trip here, there were a few people who showed up at his Town Hall Meeting and one was carrying a sign that said McCain = Bush. McCain's people called the cops to get rid of them. The woman with the sign asked the police what law they were breaking and she was then cited for interfering with a police officer.

I guess McCain = Bush was a low blow.

No, she was cited for trespassing on private property.

Wow, you can't even get that right and it's just down the street. I declare TRASH, King Nutter of the week for spreading a lie that incites Libs everywhere to repeat it for political gain. Is this how you guys really operate?

9NEWS.com | Colorado's Online News Leader | Sign-toting librarian ticketed for trespassing at Denver McCain event

DENVER – A woman who was ticketed Monday for trespassing while carrying a "McCain = Bush" sign outside a town hall meeting for Republican presumptive presidential nominee Sen. John McCain has hired a lawyer.

[Trash]

Originally Posted by SXSMITH

No, she was cited for trespassing on private property.

Wow, you can't even get that right and it's just down the street. I declare TRASH, King Nutter of the week for spreading a lie that incites Libs everywhere to repeat it for political gain. Is this how you guys really operate?

9NEWS.com | Colorado's Online News Leader | Sign-toting librarian ticketed for trespassing at Denver McCain event

DENVER – A woman who was ticketed Monday for trespassing while carrying a "McCain = Bush" sign outside a town hall meeting for Republican presumptive presidential nominee Sen. John McCain has hired a lawyer.

Relax Smith. I heard she was ticketed for Interfering with a police officer by her actual self when she was interviewed.

[SXSMITH]

Originally Posted by Trash

Relax Smith. I heard she was ticketed for Interfering with a police officer by her actual self when she was interviewed.

Now THERE is a credible witness. She's probably one of the loons that fell out of the trees at Berkeley.


I can't wait to see how she gets a lawyer to declare she wasn't trespassing while trespassing.

[Trash]

Originally Posted by SXSMITH

Now THERE is a credible witness. She's probably one of the loons that fell out of the trees at Berkeley.


I can't wait to see how she gets a lawyer to declare she wasn't trespassing while trespassing.

Wow Jan. 12, 2007. How long have you been waqiting to post that link?

[jim schmidt]

She sounds feisty. I predict its not the last we've heard from her.

[83729]

Just John's new exBush team at work. Having the local cops hustle little old fat librarians off the street is just a normal precaution as to not to bring negative publicity to their campaign. Looks as John now has a team with a winning strategy.

[SXSMITH]

Originally Posted by Trash

Wow Jan. 12, 2007. How long have you been waqiting to post that link?

She probably walked here from Berekely. You think those people can drive?

Hence 18 months.

[SXSMITH]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

She sounds feisty. I predict its not the last we've heard from her.

Maybe she'll run for office like Cindy Sheehan? And be just as successful.

[Dakota Kid]

Jim Schmidt will be along shortly to call you a pussy for that.

Maybe the nosepicker will invite you for a beer.

[Major 662]

Originally Posted by baldheadeddork

Any bets on how long it takes him to flop on that one? I'm guessing close of business today.

I'm guessing you're correct on the timing. By leaving it ambigous as to whether he was talking about the funding or the program itself, he can count on that being repeated and misconstrued as nauseum as much as the 100 years in Iraq.

McCain might wanna sit down with Carly Fiorina before any debates, because he could nail Obama on this one. Obama already took benefit cuts and higher retirement ages off the table, so that leaves him with a tax hike. Last fall in Iowa, he said we should get rid of the wage cap. Then John Edwards notes that that's a tax hike on the middle class and proposes the "donut hole" (no payroll taxes for income between ~$100K and $250K), effectively creating a tax structure that gets regressive in that range. Obama has since adopted the Edwards proposal, but he won't say whether the $250K+ earners will get benefits that correspond to their increased taxes (which obviously doesn't help the overall funding shortfall) or whether the system will be converted from an old-age insurance program to another mechanism for redistribution of wealth.

Then again, maybe McCain will call that out, and Obama will just point at him and say "This man wants to kill Social Security". Nursing homes across the country burn McCain in effigy and Obama wins in a landslide.

[Trash]

Originally Posted by Major 662

Then again, maybe McCain will call that out, and Obama will just point at him and say "This man wants to kill Social Security". Nursing homes across the country burn McCain in effigy and Obama wins in a landslide.

Hey we accidentally burned up Ol' Charlie!

Hell I thought he was the dang effigy!!!

[Gaolee]

Well, Ol' Charlie looked like McCain, so it was an honest mistake. Sorry, Auntie Mildred.

[baldheadeddork]

McCain: I don't flip flop.

In the modern political era, voters have come to expect presidential candidate to be, well, presidential. There’s an expectation of respect and decorum. Candidates are going to go on the attack on occasion, but Americans have a reasonable expectation that would-be presidents aren’t going to fly off the handle and lose their cool. After all, if a candidate can’t conduct himself or herself with dignity and class while on the campaign trail, how would the candidate perform in the White House, when the pressure’s on?

With that in mind, it seems, with each passing day, that John McCain is starting to lose his cool. It’s one thing to go on the attack; it’s another to get reckless. As much as I understand McCain’s desire to be president, I can’t help but notice that his desperation is beginning to cloud his judgment.

Yesterday, for example, during an interview with the Kansas City Star, McCain suggested Barack Obama is an “extremist,” and possibly even a “socialist.” The Jed Report posted this gem:

McCain insisted that Obama’s “voting record … is more to the left than the announced socialist in the United States Senate, Bernie Sanders of Vermont.” When reporter Dave Helling asked if McCain believes Obama is a socialist, McCain said, “Oh I don’t know,” as if it were a distinct possibility.

And that, oddly enough, was just the tip of the iceberg.

McCain, bordering on delusion, then accused Obama of reversing course on comprehensive immigration reform, which is hysterical, given that McCain reversed course on comprehensive immigration reform and Obama didn’t. But more importantly, it led to this fascinating exchange:

Q: But you flip-flop a little bit too.

McCain: No, I didn’t.

Q: You flip-flop on drilling, on tax cuts…

McCain: Actually, I didn’t. Actually, on the drilling issue, when gasoline reached $4 a gallon, we’ve got to do things that we otherwise haven’t done in the past. I have not changed my mind on any other issue. On immigration, I said we need comprehensive immigration reform, it failed twice, so we’ve got to do what’s going to succeed.

Q: But you were against the tax cuts, now you’re talking about making them permanent. Isn’t there flip-flopping on both sides?

McCain: Actually, no.

Now, if McCain wants to justify his reversals, that’s fine. He can explain why he changed his mind on various policies, and hope that voters understand. But McCain has instead decided to pretend that he’s never flip-flopped at all. Reality just didn’t happen in McCain’s odd worldview.

“I have not changed my mind on any other issue.” Senator, I’ve counted all of your flip-flops — and at last count, there are 64. At least try to stick to reality here.

It's not McCain's endorsement of Bush polices that bothers me as much as his embrace of Bush's delusion and outright lying even in the face of facts.

Here's the list where McCain has flip-flopped to appeal more to the GOP base. Follow the link for references on each.

National Security Policy

1. McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

2. McCain insisted that everyone, even “terrible killers,” “the worst kind of scum of humanity,” and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, “deserve to have some adjudication of their cases,” even if that means “releasing some of them.” McCain now believes the opposite.

3. He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”

4. In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.

5. McCain was for closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it.

6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with predators, McCain criticized him for it. He’s since come to the opposite conclusion.

Foreign Policy

7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it.

8. McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

9. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

10. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

11. McCain is both for and against a “rogue state rollback” as a focus of his foreign policy vision.

12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa before he was for it.

Military Policy

14. McCain recently claimed that he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”

15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions, concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good and a bad idea.

16. McCain was against additional U.S. forces in Afghanistan before he was for it.

17. McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”

18. McCain has repeatedly said it’s a dangerous mistake to tell the “enemy” when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013.

19. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it.

Domestic Policy

20. McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

21. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.

22. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

23. He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

24. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.

25. McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.

26. McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.

27. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.

28. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.

29. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.

30. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

31. In 2005, McCain endorsed intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite, and a few months after that, he was both for and against creationism at the same time.

32. McCain opposed gay adoption before his campaign concluded he didn’t really mean it.

33. In the Senate, McCain opposed a variety of measures on equal pay for women, and endorsed the Supreme Court’s Ledbetter decision. In July, however, McCain said, “I’m committed to making sure that there’s equal pay for equal work. That … is my record and you can count on it.”

Economic Policy

34. McCain was against Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them.

35. John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, “I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated,” and “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a “very strong” understanding of economics.

36. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first.

37. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

38. McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

39. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”

40. McCain has changed his entire economic worldview on multiple occasions.

41. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off economically than they were before Bush took office.

Energy Policy

42. McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling ; now he’s against it.

43. McCain recently announced his strong opposition to a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

44. McCain endorsed a cap-and-trade policy with a mandatory emissions cap. In mid-June, McCain announced he wants the caps to voluntary.

45. McCain explained his belief that a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax would provide an immediate economic stimulus. Shortly thereafter, he argued the exact opposite.

46. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn’t.

Immigration Policy

47. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.

48. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill.

49. In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders “before proceeding to other reform measures.” Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge, pretended that he’d never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his “top priority.”

Judicial Policy and the Rule of Law

50. McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.

51. McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

52. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

Campaign, Ethics, and Lobbying Reform

53. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.

54. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.

55. McCain supported a campaign-finance bill, which bore his name, on strengthening the public-financing system. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.

Politics and Associations

56. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee. Now he doesn’t. (He also believes his endorsement from Hagee was both a good and bad idea.)

57. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley. Now he doesn’t.

58. McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004.

59. McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.

60. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.

61. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

62. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

63. McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.

64. McCain believed powerful right-wing activist/lobbyist Grover Norquist was “corrupt, a shill for dictators, and (with just a dose of sarcasm) Jack Abramoff’s gay lover.” McCain now considers Norquist a key political ally.

[flylooper]

Originally Posted by mikem317

How about the difference between a flip-flopper and a waffler?

Is a waffler the same as a weaseler?

Gee, we have the basis for a political dictionary here.