All you guys who say you'll vote for Obama

[lockedfree]

Please explain something to me. I'm not a McSame fan but..........

How is adding tens of billions of dollars to a budget deficit which is already hyper-bloated from war in recent years; during a time of a near free-falling dollar to foreign currency value; and 12% yearly inflation; where GDP has been below that of our neighboring countries for years; when our whole economy is artificially propped up by foreign investments whose managers show a portfolio of 59% vested in American financial instruments and who cannot feasibly give us any more money; how is increasing the dollar problem with more deficit and the inflation problem with more taxes........possibly.....a good idea in your minds?

Have you not taken notice of the fact that the middle east wants to be paid in Euros ?!? Which causes the world to lose faith in our fiat currency. If foreign investors were to completely lose faith and this is currently looking like a possibility, and they pull their money out of the country our dollar is going to collapse and the Fed will try to rescue the economy by sending us into hyper-inflation.

We are facing possible big financial trouble and spending more money like Obama wants is only going to bring this problem to a head. When youre spending $100 for a sack of potatoes and selling your SUV for half a million because of excess spending by Obama, somehow "I told you so" just isnt enough.

Someone please make me understand why spending all this money on socialized programs at this point in history is a good idea.

As a side note - shouldn't the natural demand for alternative energy fund its research and development instead of completely subsidizing an entire industry?

[Baldrick]

>wasted words deleted<












You're just another (f)Right Wingnut troll...

[Gaolee]

I am confused. Massive deficits have to be paid back, but you think we shouldn't pay taxes? How else will we pay back the debts and cut the deficits? I am listening.

[Trash]

"$12 billion dollars a month"

[EEfz6]

Originally Posted by Gaolee

I am confused. Massive deficits have to be paid back, but you think we shouldn't pay taxes? How else will we pay back the debts and cut the deficits? I am listening.

One good start would be get the fuck out of Iraq and DO NOT replace it with more spending, i.e. Obama's social programs.

[Gaolee]

Originally Posted by EEfz6

One good start would be get the fuck out of Iraq and DO NOT replace it with more spending, i.e. Obama's social programs.

Getting out of Iraq is the first really big step, but we will have to pay more taxes to pay back the debt, no matter what Obama does. Taxes are a fact of life, and dumb'ya has guaranteed we will pay more of them. Neither McCain nor Obama has a choice in this matter. It is another of dumb'ya's wonderful legacies, along with the coming inflation.

Neither McCain nor Obama will get a free ride through Congress with any kind of new spending. Obama will have more constructive priorities than McCain, in my opinion, but I doubt he will be able to do anything close to everything he wants to do.

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by EEfz6

One good start would be get the fuck out of Iraq and DO NOT replace it with more spending, i.e. Obama's social programs.

How do you feel about corporate welfare?

[county]

Originally Posted by lockedfree

Please explain something to me. I'm not a McSame fan but..........

How is adding tens of billions of dollars to a budget deficit which is already hyper-bloated from war in recent years; during a time of a near free-falling dollar to foreign currency value; and 12% yearly inflation; where GDP has been below that of our neighboring countries for years; when our whole economy is artificially propped up by foreign investments whose managers show a portfolio of 59% vested in American financial instruments and who cannot feasibly give us any more money; how is increasing the dollar problem with more deficit and the inflation problem with more taxes........possibly.....a good idea in your minds?

Have you not taken notice of the fact that the middle east wants to be paid in Euros ?!? Which causes the world to lose faith in our fiat currency. If foreign investors were to completely lose faith and this is currently looking like a possibility, and they pull their money out of the country our dollar is going to collapse and the Fed will try to rescue the economy by sending us into hyper-inflation.

We are facing possible big financial trouble and spending more money like Obama wants is only going to bring this problem to a head. When youre spending $100 for a sack of potatoes and selling your SUV for half a million because of excess spending by Obama, somehow "I told you so" just isnt enough.

Someone please make me understand why spending all this money on socialized programs at this point in history is a good idea.

As a side note - shouldn't the natural demand for alternative energy fund its research and development instead of completely subsidizing an entire industry?

Well, do you think McCain will save you? Or do you need more Bush?

[lockedfree]

I am confused. Massive deficits have to be paid back, but you think we shouldn't pay taxes? How else will we pay back the debts and cut the deficits? I am listening.

I didnt say we shouldnt pay taxes. I'm saying that an increase in taxes will not solve the problem. It never has, because its a perpetual cycle. I'm also saying that an increase in taxes, right now, will hurt consumers ability to buy goods, which will hurt corporations, which will slow the economy even further, and we do not want to add that kind of negative momentum right now. The Fed is doing everything they can to jumpstart the economy - why do you think they lowered interest rates? And taxes will have the opposite effect - it will slow the economy. I believe it was Milton Friedman who said the most important piece to keeping the economy up is to keep the consumer spending money. Which is why we got the stimulus checks.

Taxes has long ago ceased to serve a primary role of funding social programs and now serves the sole purpose of making up for the excessive government borrowing and spending. Only the more taxes our government can call receivable, the more they extend their spending. Government will only use higher taxes as leverage to buy more debt - much like the consumer who digs himself a deeper hole whenever new credit is extended or income increases.

Meanwhile, the global international devaluation of our dollar reduces government ability to pay back foreign debt, much like our inflated dollar reduces our ability to purchase goods domestically.

To reduce the deficit, you start by reducing your national expenses. The war didn't help in this area, although I have to admit whether or not Bush saved us from larger problems is outside my understanding. See, one major reason our dollar maintained worldwide value for so long is because anyone who needed to buy oil had to obtain our dollar first, as the middle east would only accept dollars for oil. Take that away, and along with it goes much of the faith that ours is the most faithful currency, despite being a fiat.

But no I dont like Bush. I think he ought to be impeached for the horrific executive orders he has created among other reasons. I'm simply saying Obama isnt the savior everyone thinks he is. I think he can cause just as much trouble as Mcsame, by way of bringing our economy to its knees at a time it is already suffering. Ideally we would all be voting for Ron Paul in my opinion. He seems to have the best economic sense, and seems to be the most forthcoming with information of any politician I've looked at.

[Gaolee]

You are losing me with your economic arguments. Sorry, but I don't understand where governments get money aside from taxes of various kinds. But, if you think Ron Paul would be the best choice, then vote for him, even if it is a write in.

[lockedfree]

Originally Posted by Gaolee

You are losing me with your economic arguments. Sorry, but I don't understand where governments get money aside from taxes of various kinds. But, if you think Ron Paul would be the best choice, then vote for him, even if it is a write in.

Well, the thread began with me asking you to explain why increasing the budget (Obamas proposal) is a good idea. Not for me to convince you of anything.

But since you brought it up, I'm curious: Why am I losing you with economic arguments when my first post, the one that initially gained your interest, was a purely economic argument?

Technically, Government doesn't get money from taxes. It gets (borrows) money from the Federal Reserve and from wealth managers in foreign countries, and then the government pays that money back with interest, using taxes to do so. The borrowing is accomplished by selling government bonds (IOU tickets).

Not sure if by "losing you", you meant that you dont understand my argument. In case there is anyone who doesnt but is still interested:

Taxes reduce your ability to buy goods. If you cant buy goods, companies cant sell goods. If companies cant sell goods, they don't need employees. If there are no employees, there are no taxes to be paid. Its a balancing act, and there must be a balance.

It's not much different from you buying a house you cannot afford, running up $100,000 worth of credit card debt, and now your house is being foreclosed and so you go running to your boss and demand a raise. At the same time you're demanding a raise, you tell your boss what you need the raise for - to buy a new ferrari.

Just like all your stuff can be reposessed, the foreign wealth managers can decide they want their money back. Only because our dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be, we would actually have to pay back even more than we originally promised. If they took their money back, then our banks and large corporations and government that were all depending on that money are now bankrupt, and the economy crashes, and we live like Argentina.

Why would they demand their money back from us? Only if they lose faith in the value of the dollar. The dropping value of the dollar is a sign that people are losing faith in it.

Obviously taxes provide some benefit, but there has to be a limit somewhere. Moderation is key. If the economy slows down even more, due to a reduced ability of consumers to buy toys, due to higher taxes, then other countries will lose even more faith in the dollar. As they lose faith, the dollar will drop more, and the economy will suffer more, wages will go down, unemployment will go up, and as a side note all those cheap products we get from china will not be cheap anymore.

[flylooper]

Originally Posted by lockedfree

Well, the thread began with me asking you to explain why increasing the budget (Obamas proposal) is a good idea. Not for me to convince you of anything.

But since you brought it up, I'm curious: Why am I losing you with economic arguments when my first post, the one that initially gained your interest, was a purely economic argument?

Technically, Government doesn't get money from taxes. It gets (borrows) money from the Federal Reserve and from wealth managers in foreign countries, and then the government pays that money back with interest, using taxes to do so. The borrowing is accomplished by selling government bonds (IOU tickets).
I
Not sure if by "losing you", you meant that you dont understand my argument. In case there is anyone who doesnt but is still interested:

Taxes reduce your ability to buy goods. If you cant buy goods, companies cant sell goods. If companies cant sell goods, they don't need employees. If there are no employees, there are no taxes to be paid. Its a balancing act, and there must be a balance.

It's not much different from you buying a house you cannot afford, running up $100,000 worth of credit card debt, and now your house is being foreclosed and so you go running to your boss and demand a raise. At the same time you're demanding a raise, you tell your boss what you need the raise for - to buy a new ferrari.

Just like all your stuff can be reposessed, the foreign wealth managers can decide they want their money back. Only because our dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be, we would actually have to pay back even more than we originally promised. If they took their money back, then our banks and large corporations and government that were all depending on that money are now bankrupt, and the economy crashes, and we live like Argentina.

Why would they demand their money back from us? Only if they lose faith in the value of the dollar. The dropping value of the dollar is a sign that people are losing faith in it.

Obviously taxes provide some benefit, but there has to be a limit somewhere. Moderation is key. If the economy slows down even more, due to a reduced ability of consumers to buy toys, due to higher taxes, then other countries will lose even more faith in the dollar. As they lose faith, the dollar will drop more, and the economy will suffer more, wages will go down, unemployment will go up, and as a side note all those cheap products we get from china will not be cheap anymore.

Is it possible for you to write a little less and think a little more?

[BusaDave]

Originally Posted by lockedfree

Well, the thread began with me asking you to explain why increasing the budget (Obamas proposal) is a good idea. Not for me to convince you of anything.

So you're trying to explain this to whom if it's not important to be convincing?

I think his point was that's a pretty simplified view of economics.

[SXSMITH]

Originally Posted by Trash

"$12 billion dollars a month"

In a country with a $13.85 Trillion GDP.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/us.html