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Politics & ReligionWell Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.
I think they should at least be severely beaten to within an inch of their useless lives on a weekly basis. And when they're not getting beaten they should be kept in a windowless, unlit, 3x3x3 foot cell 24/7 for life. Just think of how many we could pack in to one prison facility at once! Save me tax money that would normally go towards rehab, GEDs, and cable TV. Just my $.02
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"But Kennedy said the absence of any executions for rape and the small number of states that allow it demonstrate "there is a national consensus against capital punishment for the crime of child rape."
How the fuck does he know there is a national concensus against this crime?
They should put it to a vote. I would vote for a cheap bullet to the back of the head in the parking lot of the court house right after the conviction.
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1) If the rape is punishable by death, then the perp has no reason whatsoever not to murder the kid afterward. It's safer for him that way. Most molested kids don't get killed now; this would increase that percentage.
2) The death penalty for anything is problematic, since innocent people do get caught up in the system and railroaded. And in high profile cases like child rape there is a lot of pressure to find a perp and convict him, sometimes without adequate safeguards. If you then put him to death, and find out later that it was a mistake and that guy didn't actually do it, there's nothing to do about it. If he's in prison, at least you can let him out, apologize, offer some compensation, and the rest of his life back.
PhilB
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'93 Ducati Monster 900
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1) If the rape is punishable by death, then the perp has no reason whatsoever not to murder the kid afterward. It's safer for him that way. Most molested kids don't get killed now; this would increase that percentage.
2) The death penalty for anything is problematic, since innocent people do get caught up in the system and railroaded. And in high profile cases like child rape there is a lot of pressure to find a perp and convict him, sometimes without adequate safeguards. If you then put him to death, and find out later that it was a mistake and that guy didn't actually do it, there's nothing to do about it. If he's in prison, at least you can let him out, apologize, offer some compensation, and the rest of his life back.
PhilB
+1 the death penalty is bullshit, just like 90% of the rest of our legal system. The whole thing could use an overhaul.
There's no death penalty for any kind of rape. So it makes sense.
I'm not sure there shouldn't be, especially in the case of a child. I have major problems with state-sanctioned execution.... but when it comes to the rape of a child, and the fact that more often that not child molesters cannot be reformed..... It's a self-perpetuating disease and steals childhood. It's one of the few crimes that triggers my kill-on-impulse button.
__________________
The rat always knows when he's in with weasels. Here you lose a little every day.
I remember when a million was a million. They all have ways to make you pay.
~ Tom Waits
Thank god I'm not cool, I can do anything I want ~ Fourstring Gewsleesta
1) If the rape is punishable by death, then the perp has no reason whatsoever not to murder the kid afterward. It's safer for him that way. Most molested kids don't get killed now; this would increase that percentage.
2) The death penalty for anything is problematic, since innocent people do get caught up in the system and railroaded. And in high profile cases like child rape there is a lot of pressure to find a perp and convict him, sometimes without adequate safeguards. If you then put him to death, and find out later that it was a mistake and that guy didn't actually do it, there's nothing to do about it. If he's in prison, at least you can let him out, apologize, offer some compensation, and the rest of his life back.
PhilB
1) As I mentioned, child molestation is more often than not a self-perpetuating disease. Execute child molesters and my guess is the incidenses (sp?) of molestation will drop dramatically.
2) I fully agree. The burden of proof for capital cases must be much higher than it is currently and prosecutor must be held to unimpeachable standard in such cases.
__________________
The rat always knows when he's in with weasels. Here you lose a little every day.
I remember when a million was a million. They all have ways to make you pay.
~ Tom Waits
Thank god I'm not cool, I can do anything I want ~ Fourstring Gewsleesta
1) As I mentioned, child molestation is more often than not a self-perpetuating disease. Execute child molesters and my guess is the incidenses (sp?) of molestation will drop dramatically.
2) I fully agree. The burden of proof for capital cases must be much higher than it is currently and prosecutor must be held to unimpeachable standard in such cases.
There's a middle option between kill someone, and let him out to prey again. I'm fine with life without parole in such cases. That way, again, if you find you've messed up, it's partially reparable. And it doesn't cost any more these days to imprison someone for life than it does to put him death row for years and multiple court appeals. And the death penalty has never been shown to be a useful deterrent; criminal studies show that deterrence is linked to the perceived *likelihood* of punishment, not the *severity*. And (to head off the usual I-don't-want-to-spend-the-money arguments from some) if you're really concerned about the high costs of incarceration, there are literally millions of people in jail for doing nothing more than having or using marijuana. Let them out.
PhilB
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'93 Ducati Monster 900
158,000 miles (so far)
There's a middle option between kill someone, and let him out to prey again. I'm fine with life without parole in such cases. That way, again, if you find you've messed up, it's partially reparable. And it doesn't cost any more these days to imprison someone for life than it does to put him death row for years and multiple court appeals. And the death penalty has never been shown to be a useful deterrent; criminal studies show that deterrence is linked to the perceived *likelihood* of punishment, not the *severity*. And (to head off the usual I-don't-want-to-spend-the-money arguments from some) if you're really concerned about the high costs of incarceration, there are literally millions of people in jail for doing nothing more than having or using marijuana. Let them out.
PhilB
Mary-Jane should be legalized. To equate pot possession, distribution, or use, with the molestation of a child is asinine. I simply, and completely, disagree with you on this issue. As I pointed out the burden of proof is on the prosecution and I fully believe it must not be within any reasonable doubt and must be unimpeachable. In such cases that it is not, life in prison, with the possibility of release on reversal is fine with me and the point of sentencing. But in lock-tight cases.... death is the only appropriate punishment for such a heinous crime. You fuck a child you die.
As with any legal issue it isn't as simple as I make it. What of the case of an eighteen year old and a fifteen year old? Death does not make sense, prison doesn't necessarily make sense. But an eighteen year old, or older, and a ten year old or younger? Hang 'em, and hang 'em high. I'm no jurist, but wrong is, actually, wrong.
I definitely do have problems with state sanctioned execution, but I absolutely do not believe in frontier justice either. Mob law is not law, it's madness and murder, ill-conceived and ill-administered. As a society, however, death is a punishment worthy of consideration and application, in my opinion. There are crimes for which no other form punishment will do. There are crimes for which you forfeit your right to breath and in my opinion the rape of a child is one.
__________________
The rat always knows when he's in with weasels. Here you lose a little every day.
I remember when a million was a million. They all have ways to make you pay.
~ Tom Waits
Thank god I'm not cool, I can do anything I want ~ Fourstring Gewsleesta
Mary-Jane should be legalized. To equate pot possession, distribution, or use, with the molestation of a child is asinine. I simply, and completely, disagree with you on this issue. As I pointed out the burden of proof is on the prosecution and I fully believe it must not be within any reasonable doubt and must be unimpeachable. In such cases that it is not, life in prison, with the possibility of release on reversal is fine with me and the point of sentencing. But in lock-tight cases.... death is the only appropriate punishment for such a heinous crime. You fuck a child you die.
As with any legal issue it isn't as simple as I make it. What of the case of an eighteen year old and a fifteen year old? Death does not make sense, prison doesn't necessarily make sense. But an eighteen year old, or older, and a ten year old or younger? Hang 'em, and hang 'em high. I'm no jurist, but wrong is, actually, wrong.
I definitely do have problems with state sanctioned execution, but I absolutely do not believe in frontier justice either. Mob law is not law, it's madness and murder, ill-conceived and ill-administered. As a society, however, death is a punishment worthy of consideration and application, in my opinion. There are crimes for which no other form punishment will do. There are crimes for which you forfeit your right to breath and in my opinion the rape of a child is one.
PhilB was NOT equating child rape and marijuana possession. He was making a valid point that if you say "it's too expensive to keep a child raper in prison so we should kill him" then you can't justifiably say that people in prison on marijuana crimes should be kept in prison.
Second, you basically supported peoples' argument against the death penalty in these cases by clearly demonstrating the fact that THINGS ARE NOT BLACK OR WHITE. These crimes, the situations around them, and the severity of them run the gamut of every shade of gray. Furthermore, what YOU think should be clearly a death penalty case (10 years old by your example) might be different than what someone else thinks (maybe they think 12 years or younger constitutes death).
The fact of the matter is, nobody is ever going to agree on this issue. EVER. But, what we can all agree on is the FACT that there have been cases where people have been proven to have been wrongfully imprisoned, and even wrongfully killed. Is it worth the vengeance factor of seeing people who truly did commit a crime get killed for it, to have innocent people and their families/friends deal with a loved one getting killed for a crime they did not commit? Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who would say yes to that question.
Mary-Jane should be legalized. To equate pot possession, distribution, or use, with the molestation of a child is asinine. I simply, and completely, disagree with you on this issue. As I pointed out the burden of proof is on the prosecution and I fully believe it must not be within any reasonable doubt and must be unimpeachable. In such cases that it is not, life in prison, with the possibility of release on reversal is fine with me and the point of sentencing. But in lock-tight cases.... death is the only appropriate punishment for such a heinous crime. You fuck a child you die.
As with any legal issue it isn't as simple as I make it. What of the case of an eighteen year old and a fifteen year old? Death does not make sense, prison doesn't necessarily make sense. But an eighteen year old, or older, and a ten year old or younger? Hang 'em, and hang 'em high. I'm no jurist, but wrong is, actually, wrong.
I definitely do have problems with state sanctioned execution, but I absolutely do not believe in frontier justice either. Mob law is not law, it's madness and murder, ill-conceived and ill-administered. As a society, however, death is a punishment worthy of consideration and application, in my opinion. There are crimes for which no other form punishment will do. There are crimes for which you forfeit your right to breath and in my opinion the rape of a child is one.
I appreciate your anger, but revenge is a poor rationale for sentencing guidelines; that just makes it a state-sanctioned mob.
And you apparently misunderstood my comment about marijuana users. Whenever I bring up life-without-parole as an option instead of the death penalty, some people always object to the cost of keeping someone in prison for life. My point was that if that's your concern, there are lots of ways to reduce prison costs that don't involve killing people, and proposed releasing all the pot users as a good first step, since they aren't much of a threat to anyone. I fully support keeping dangerous criminals in prison for as long as needed to keep the rest of us safe from them. Focusing on that and letting go of many non-violent criminals (and all of those convicted of "victimless crimes") would bring the costs of keeping the dangerous ones down to a more reasonable level without endangering the rest of us.
Even if certain crimes do deserve death (and I think you're right; there are some), it's still not a good idea to officially enshrine that power and that practice in the government. That's an awesome power that you can't ever guarantee won't be abused. Better to keep even the most heinous criminals locked up for life (rather than killed) than to let the state kill people legally.
That standard of proof you cite as needed for death penalty cases has not, in real life, been consistently applied, and I don't think it is possible to ensure it will be.
PhilB
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I agree with the death penalty for rape. What people don't understand is these victims live with this for the rest of their lives. A lot of women and children never recover from something like this. These women/children and sometimes men suffer for their entire life so the dirt bag that did it should die......if not die then severly suffer for the rest of his life.
Chalk up another win for the child molester
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