Advertise here as low as $250/month

Home Message Board SBN Articles User Reviews Bike Specs Register Pictures Classifieds Bike Project How To's
MarketPlace Dealers Chat Top Sites Links SBN Store Forum Rules Contributors Sponsors Contact Us Advertising Information

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
SuperbikeToyStore.com
Go Back   Sportbikes.net > Topic Discussions > Open Forums > Sportbike Cafe > Politics & Religion
Register Subscribe Casino Garage FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Politics & Religion Well Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.

» Site Sponsors
SportbikeTrackGearNice CycleAmericanMotorcyclistAssociationCycleGear.comOPP RacingWilzGarageArnottAirRideCheapCycleParts.comChainDrain.comBikeBanditAnnitori DistributingGravesMotorsportsSpringfield ArmorySportbikeTrackGearSee your ad here!

Reply
 
LinkBack (2) Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-29-2008, 12:28 AM   2 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)
baldheadeddork
500 G.P. Champion
 
baldheadeddork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,465
Casino Cash: $24750
Sportbike: Kawasaki GPZ1100
baldheadeddork is on a distinguished road
Default Your Guide To the Florida and Michigan Showdown This Weekend

So Dork, just what the hell is going on?

Its the meeting of the Rules and Bylaws Committee of the Democratic National Committee, which you'll hear called the "RBC" by countless numbers of reporters who didn't know it existed six months ago.

The committee is made up of two co-chairs and 28 members. All items voted on by the committee pass or fail on a simple majority vote. Of the 30 members of the committee, thirteen have endorsed Hillary Clinton, eight have endorsed Barack Obama, and nine (including the co-chairs) have not announced who they are endorsing.


These thirty party hacks are going to decide what happens to Florida and Michigan?

That's the theory. In practice, any ruling that comes out of this weekend can be appealed to the Credentials Committee, which meets in July...


They get the final word?

You must be new to Democratic party politics. All it takes is 20% to appeal the ruling of either committee to the next level, and after the Credentials Committee the next stop is the full delegation at the convention itself. That's the floor fight you hear people talking about.


Are you saying there's really nothing to stop Clinton from forcing a floor fight?

Yeah, there is one big thing that can stop it but we're getting ahead of ourselves.


Okay asshole. Why don't you tell me the question I should be asking?

You probably want to know what will happen to Florida and Michigan.


Don't let me stop you.

By all accounts the Clinton campaign is offering zero compromise. They want both delegations seated at full strength - and they want the delegates awarded by the most restrictive rules. They don't want Obama to get any pledged delegates from Michigan, and they want Edwards pledged delegates from Florida to be uncommitted super delegates.

The DNC has been sticking to its guns that no delegates from either should be seated until the nomination has been decided, if ever. Their position is that if Florida and Michigan are not punished severely for willfully breaking the rules, the party will have no control over the next primary season. If the state politicians continue their imbecilic belief that only early primaries matter this means we could easily have states leapfrogging one another to get an ever-earlier primary date. If you think this election has been ungodly long, you ain't seen nothing yet. Take away the ability of the party to enforce its primary schedule and you'll get the Iowa caucuses before Halloween.

It doesn't get a lot of media attention, but every state and territory not named either Florida or Michigan is 100% behind the DNC in punishing the two who did jump the line. You really can't overstate just how alone these two state parties and the Clinton campaign are on their insistence of seating Michigan and Florida like nothing happened. One of the most telling stats of this whole mess is how Obama has just dominated Clinton in super delegate endorsements from state party officials, even in states Clinton has won by large margins.


You're drifting again.

Yeah, sorry. Anyway, Clinton wants everything that will help her and the DNC isn't backing down. Today a group of lawyers for the DNC who had looked at the bylaws and rules released an opinion that the RBC could not seat more than 50% of the Florida and Michigan delegations without breaking the rules. The Clinton camp immediately responded with something close to "oh look - its another asshole with an opinion", but the ruling doesn't help their case with the uncommitted committee members they need to win anything.


Okay, now its my turn to get sidetracked. Is this 50% thing bullshit?

Yeah - its total bullshit as far as the nomination process is concerned. Michigan and Florida are both large states and cutting their delegation in half would in theory give them much less influence. But at this stage and in this race, giving Florida "only" 105.5 delegates is really no different from seating them at their full strength. Even under the best-case scenario for Clinton she would still be more than 100 delegates behind Obama and would need to win an impossible 70% of the remaining super and pledged delegates to get the nomination.

I don't think you should forget that from the DNC's perspective this is about punishing Michigan and Florida so no one will break the schedule again. The 50% rule is punishment because that means each state can only bring half as many delegates to the big party. That is the punishment.

In a similar vein, both states will be given the worst hotel assignments if they are seated, and there has been a novel suggestion that the delegations should be seated at 50% and the party officials in each state who were responsible for breaking the schedule should have their super delegate status stripped for this year. It's mostly an ego thing, but if you want to hurt a big league politician like Carl Levin, that's what you aim for. I won't be surprised if that is the ultimate solution.


You haven't said anything about the Obama campaign? What do they want out of this weekend?

Very little. Their big goal is to not piss off any of the undecided members of the RBC, or the unannounced super delegates who will be watching on C-SPAN. Slice and dice Michigan and Florida any way you want, Obama will still have an insurmountable delegate lead.

If there is going to be a fight, the Obama team wants it to be between the Clinton campaign and the DNC. They don't want to be in a position where they are defending the DNC for taking away all of the Michigan and Florida delegates, and they damn well don't want to give Clinton anything to take to the super delegates that Obama is too angry or confrontational to be the nominee. Because of the 20% standard for appealing any decision, they know it won't end this weekend, so don't expect them to treat this like a last stand. A good weekend for them is if they come out looking like the people trying to pull the party back together and get everyone united against John McCain.

It's not just rhetoric. Earlier this week Clinton supporters announced they would be protesting the RBC meeting, even taking out ads in the NY Times and USA Today to get people to show up in Washington. Obama supporters immediately started to organize a counter-protest, but the campaign quickly shot it down and asked the would-be protesters to do a voter registration drive in Virginia and Maryland instead. The last thing they want is the news being led for a week with their supporters and Clinton supporters screaming at each other.


If Obama will have an unsurmountable lead no matter what happens to Michigan and Florida, why not just give Clinton what she wants and get it all over with?

Ding. If there is any surprise that comes out of this weekend, I think that's what it will be.

If you seat Michigan and Florida at full strength, under the most generous rules for Clinton, Obama needs just 69 super delegate endorsements (out of 259 available) to lock Clinton out. He gets the nomination at 88. Anything over that is gravy.

If Obama gets behind Clinton on this, the ultimate display of party unity, could he get a large pool of supers to come out en masse at the same time and end it all? The undeclared supers want a solution that doesn't tear the party apart and this would be one. It gives Clinton what she's been calling for, gives them cover to get behind Obama in the name of party unity, eliminates any chance of her taking this further, and forces her to live up to her pledge to shut up and get behind the nominee.


Are you smoking crack?

Probably, but its not entirely out of the question. A lot of prominent supers have been very quiet since Oregon and Kentucky last week. They are looking for a solution to this mess and this is the easiest way out. Clinton's vows this week to fight for Michigan and Florida all the way to the convention is going to really crank up the pressure on them to end this.

I don't think the Obama campaign could put this together without the honchos in the party. But if they could get Pelosi, Emanuel and Reid on board - then yeah, this is doable.

Hey, it's no less likely than a lot of other weird shit that's happened this year.
baldheadeddork is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 05-29-2008, 01:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
Gaolee
Hooptie Corsa
SBN Contributor
 
Gaolee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: breakin' stuff out back
Posts: 3,954
Casino Cash: $24886
Sportbike: Too many but never enough
Gaolee is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Your analysis is far less weird than a lot of things the Clinton camp has done so far.
__________________
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon.

2006 Daytona 675 street squid bike
1999 SV650 track tool and face plant master
1991 Husky 610 bitsa, tard, dirt weapon, and oil puddle creator
1971 Norton Commando garage ornament
1973 Chevy blingin' hooptie van bike hauler
Gaolee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 08:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
county
500 G.P. Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,935
Casino Cash: $30010
Sportbike: Superblackbird XX, F650CS
county is on a distinguished road
Default

I like the part about worst hotel assignments.
__________________
IBA 22810
county is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 11:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
Trash
500 G.P. Champion
SBN Contributor
 
Trash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,714
Casino Cash: $29045
Sportbike: ZX-11 Fast when going straight!!!
Trash is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by county View Post
I like the part about worst hotel assignments.
I know some nice motels on West Colfax. Hey they would be close to the hookers.
Trash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 11:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
SlowGoose
that bike is TALL
SBN Contributor
 
SlowGoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Age: 36
Posts: 4,143
Casino Cash: $27514
Sportbike: '76 Moto Guzzi 850 T3, '03 KLX 400
SlowGoose is on a distinguished road
Default

Well, Pelosi is saying she's going to step in if need be to keep the fight off the convention floor.
__________________
The rat always knows when he's in with weasels. Here you lose a little every day.
I remember when a million was a million. They all have ways to make you pay.
~ Tom Waits
Thank god I'm not cool, I can do anything I want ~ Fourstring
Gewsleesta
SlowGoose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
SXSMITH
World 500 GP Champion
 
SXSMITH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Conifer, CO
Age: 51
Posts: 4,212
Casino Cash: $5345
Sportbike: 2006 BMW K1200S
SXSMITH is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash View Post
I know some nice motels on West Colfax. Hey they would be close to the hookers.
You probably know the hookers as well?
SXSMITH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 04:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
Trash
500 G.P. Champion
SBN Contributor
 
Trash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,714
Casino Cash: $29045
Sportbike: ZX-11 Fast when going straight!!!
Trash is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SXSMITH View Post
You probably know the hookers as well?
There's Candi, Trixie, Bambi, your momma.......
Trash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 05:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
BigBadBoom
Writer of Wrongs
SBN Contributor
 
BigBadBoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Berkley, MI
Age: 36
Posts: 1,523
Casino Cash: $28975
Sportbike: '03 Ninja ZX-7R, '01 Duc 748/853
BigBadBoom is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash View Post
There's Candi, Trixie, Bambi, your momma.......
Burn!!!
__________________
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drum
-A Perfect Circle

War is over (if you want it)
-John Lennon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabellum View Post
You are like some kind of advanced government experiment in artificial stupidity.
BigBadBoom is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2008, 09:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
jim schmidt
World 500 GP Champion
SBN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 13,128
Casino Cash: $35641
Sportbike: '04 999, '07 VN900C, '98 VTR1000F, '76 XS650, '79 XS650 Special
jim schmidt has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash View Post
There's Candi, Trixie, Bambi, your momma.......
Even Smith seldom lobs one over the plate that perfectly.
__________________
-- Jim

My President
jim schmidt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 11:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
Dakota Kid
World 500 GP Racer
 
Dakota Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Springfield, MO
Age: 45
Posts: 3,212
Casino Cash: $13171
Sportbike: 2003 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
Dakota Kid is on a distinguished road
Default

BHD, that was an entertaining read.

As usual, it is all or nothing for Hillary. This should be her very last stand.
__________________
Ride hard.
Dakota Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 11:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
flylooper
World 500 GP Racer
 
flylooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Jefferson, OR
Posts: 2,971
Casino Cash: $16684
Sportbike: FJR1300
flylooper is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash View Post
There's Candi, Trixie, Bambi, your momma.......


Scott - you just got shot out of your saddle, guy! Slow down with the quips. Even *I* could see that one coming a mile away.
flylooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 12:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
Gaolee
Hooptie Corsa
SBN Contributor
 
Gaolee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: breakin' stuff out back
Posts: 3,954
Casino Cash: $24886
Sportbike: Too many but never enough
Gaolee is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim schmidt View Post
Even Smith seldom lobs one over the plate that perfectly.
We have the battery of Scott and Scott. Scott pitches to Scott, who hits it over the fence. These guys are practically neighbors, so you know they've been practicing. They are professionals and the rest of us are mere amateurs.
__________________
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon.

2006 Daytona 675 street squid bike
1999 SV650 track tool and face plant master
1991 Husky 610 bitsa, tard, dirt weapon, and oil puddle creator
1971 Norton Commando garage ornament
1973 Chevy blingin' hooptie van bike hauler
Gaolee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 03:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
SXSMITH
World 500 GP Champion
 
SXSMITH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Conifer, CO
Age: 51
Posts: 4,212
Casino Cash: $5345
Sportbike: 2006 BMW K1200S
SXSMITH is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash View Post
There's Candi, Trixie, Bambi, your momma.......
Tip momma well.
SXSMITH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 05:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
baldheadeddork
500 G.P. Champion
 
baldheadeddork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,465
Casino Cash: $24750
Sportbike: Kawasaki GPZ1100
baldheadeddork is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SXSMITH View Post
Tip momma well.


Well played, sir. Well played.
baldheadeddork is offline   Reply With Quote