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Politics & ReligionWell Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.
"As Barack Obama's candidacy comes under increasing scrutiny, his account of his religious upbringing deserves careful attention for what it tells us about the candidate's integrity.
Obama asserted in December, "I've always been a Christian," and he has adamantly denied ever having been a Muslim. "The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country [Kenya]. But I've never practiced Islam." In February, he claimed: "I have never been a Muslim. … other than my name and the fact that I lived in a populous Muslim country for 4 years when I was a child [Indonesia, 1967-71] I have very little connection to the Islamic religion."
"Always" and "never" leave little room for equivocation. But many biographical facts, culled mainly from the American press, suggest that, when growing up, the Democratic candidate for president both saw himself and was seen as a Muslim.
Obama's Kenyan birth father: In Islam, religion passes from the father to the child. Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. (1936-1982) was a Muslim who named his boy Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. Only Muslim children are named "Hussein".
Obama's Indonesian family: His stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, was also a Muslim. In fact, as Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng explained to Jodi Kantor of the New York Times: "My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim." An Indonesian publication, the Banjarmasin Post reports a former classmate, Rony Amir, recalling that "All the relatives of Barry's father were very devout Muslims."
The Catholic school: Nedra Pickler of the Associated Press reports that "documents showed he enrolled as a Muslim" while at a Catholic school during first through third grades. Kim Barker of the Chicago Tribune confirms that Obama was "listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school." A blogger who goes by "An American Expat in Southeast Asia" found that "Barack Hussein Obama was registered under the name 'Barry Soetoro' serial number 203 and entered the Franciscan Asisi Primary School on 1 January 1968 and sat in class 1B. … Barry's religion was listed as Islam."
The public school: Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times learned from Indonesians familiar with Obama when he lived in Jakarta that he "was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended." Haroon Siddiqui of the Toronto Star visited the Jakarta public school Obama attended and found that "Three of his teachers have said he was enrolled as a Muslim." Although Siddiqui cautions that "With the school records missing, eaten by bugs, one has to rely on people's shifting memories," he cites only one retired teacher, Tine Hahiyari, retracting her earlier certainty about Obama's being registered as a Muslim.
Koran class: In his autobiography, Dreams of My Father, Obama relates how he got into trouble for making faces during Koranic studies, thereby revealing he was a Muslim, for Indonesian students in his day attended religious classes according to their faith. Indeed, Obama still retains knowledge from that class: Nicholas D. Kristof of the New York Times, reports that Obama "recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them [to Kristof] with a first-rate accent."
Mosque attendance: Obama's half-sister recalled that the family attended the mosque "for big communal events." Watson learned from childhood friends that "Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque." Barker found that "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers." One Indonesia friend, Zulfin Adi, states that Obama "was Muslim. He went to the mosque. I remember him wearing a sarong" (a garment associated with Muslims).
Piety: Obama himself says that while living in Indonesia, a Muslim country, he "didn't practice [Islam]," implicitly acknowledging a Muslim identity. Indonesians differ in their memories of him. One, Rony Amir, describes Obama as "previously quite religious in Islam."
Obama's having been born and raised a Muslim and having left the faith to become a Christian make him neither more nor less qualified to become president of the United States. But if he was born and raised a Muslim and is now hiding that fact, this points to a major deceit, a fundamental misrepresentation about himself that has profound implications about his character and his suitability as president."
Meh... This crap has been debunked. Pipes would appear to be connected to a fairly rabid pro-Israeli bunch, who would certainly not be happy to have anyone further left than McCain in the WH. After all, it's been the GOP and far Right that have been ultra staunch supporters of Israel's methods for some years. Why not spread the myth of Obama as a Mulsim some more?
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I don't want the world. I just want your hat. - They Might Be Giants
I'm a non practicing Muslim. I'm more American then Iranian in every aspect of my life.
Yet since I moved to this country at the age of 7 I've been attacked for a religion and a culture I know very little about. I've had teachers hate me for nothing more than the odd sound of my name. I've had parents of girls I've dated ask me to stop seeing their daughter because they were afraid I would convert them. I've had bosses, both unprofessional (super market) and professional (in engineering companies) discount me because of where I was from and of a religion I no longer practiced.
Do I like talking about it? No. Do I introduce my self as Sean instead of Shah when I meet people for the first time? Yes.
Is it a purely American thing to hate those that aren't from America? No.
But you learn to grow a thick skin, you learn how to disarm stupidity with humor, you learn that unlike every one else you sometimes have to work harder to prove your self.
Am I picked on here and in other forums sometimes for not being a native? Sure.
But it's life. What can I do.
So do I understand what Mr. Obama is going threw.......in a way yeah.
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Ahhh, what an awful dream. Ones and zeroes everywhere... and I thought I saw a two!
Posts: 1,563
Casino Cash: $25789
Sportbike: ZX-11 Fast when going straight!!!
My wife's father was born and raised in Hyderabad, India and is a Muslim. He got his undergraduate degree in engineering in India then went to Berkeley, CA for his Masters.
While there he met my wife's mother and they got married. She is white by the way and is Episcopalian. They had two kids. My wife and her older brother.
They decided to raise them as Americans and went to the Episcopalian church where they were baptised. My father-in-law went to the Episcopalian as well.
Their names by the way are Niloufer Jahan (wife) and Mohammed Karimudeen.
So it's not unusual for a situation like Obama's to happen. I've seen it first hand.
I'm a non practicing Muslim. I'm more American then Iranian in every aspect of my life.
Yet since I moved to this country at the age of 7 I've been attacked for a religion and a culture I know very little about. I've had teachers hate me for nothing more than the odd sound of my name. I've had parents of girls I've dated ask me to stop seeing their daughter because they were afraid I would convert them. I've had bosses, both unprofessional (super market) and professional (in engineering companies) discount me because of where I was from and of a religion I no longer practiced.
Do I like talking about it? No. Do I introduce my self as Sean instead of Shah when I meet people for the first time? Yes.
Is it a purely American thing to hate those that aren't from America? No.
But you learn to grow a thick skin, you learn how to disarm stupidity with humor, you learn that unlike every one else you sometimes have to work harder to prove your self.
Am I picked on here and in other forums sometimes for not being a native? Sure.
But it's life. What can I do.
So do I understand what Mr. Obama is going threw.......in a way yeah.
Let me say I'm sorry for that Shah, from me as an American.
I may of got into a insult war with you at one time, so I'm sorry for that also.
We Americans can be stupid at times. But we are much better off with Americans like yourself being here.
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Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist.'
Nah it's cool. It's human nature! No harm no foul you know.
But in the larger picture when it comes to electing officials?
Look I don't care if he's Christian or Hari Christan and if he swears on a stack of Swanks (showing my age and dirtyness here). As long as he brings about postive meaningful change where by life in this great nation is improves via improving basic education, basic health care and encourages respect to all men and women I don't care.
Now some do. And there isn't a heck of a lot we can do to change the way they feel.
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Ahhh, what an awful dream. Ones and zeroes everywhere... and I thought I saw a two!
Yeah, Shaw, they're really sorry about you, but they are perfectly content to pass on a massive pack of lies about some other dude they don't even know.
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The rat always knows when he's in with weasels. Here you lose a little every day.
I remember when a million was a million. They all have ways to make you pay.
~ Tom Waits
Thank god I'm not cool, I can do anything I want ~ Fourstring Gewsleesta
There is a certain special kind of hypocrisy in having the word "veritas" in ones avatar and promoting dishonest reporting. After all, if one is advertising themselves as "truth" doesn't one have a special responsibility to make sure ones posts reflect it?
There is a certain special kind of hypocrisy in having the word "veritas" in ones avatar and promoting dishonest reporting. After all, if one is advertising themselves as "truth" doesn't one have a special responsibility to make sure ones posts reflect it?
Just sayin...
He's from Texas, their definition is different down there.
It looks like "a certain special kind of hypocrisy", to pick and
choose what to believe based on who you....
(never mind, over your head and wrong thread)
If its "dishonest reporting", you really need to drop a line
to those writers of the links you never clicked.
Such as msnbc, ny times, banjarmasin post, associated press,
l a times, toronto star, bla bla bla.
THOSE are where the story came from.
*huff*
As the post starts off... Some food for thought...
the last line said it all.
I did not ask you for your personal opinion of me (as if)
or my character.
Oh, the last line? "Obama's having been born and raised a Muslim and having left the faith to become a Christian make him neither more nor less qualified to become president of the United States. But if he was born and raised a Muslim and is now hiding that fact, this points to a major deceit, a fundamental misrepresentation about himself that has profound implications about his character and his suitability as president."
You see lil Jimmy, it's a character issue.
If you're still having a prob...
pm me your number and Ill be more then happy to read it to you.
Just who IS the man?
