Not Guilty

[thelazyone]

The 3 NYPD officers accused of firing 50 bullets and killing an unarmed man have been found not guilty. I just hope the law abiding citizens of NYC remain calm and collective. I would hate to see another Rodney King incident take place in the streets of NYC.

[Gaolee]

Crap like that went on in NYC while I lived there more than twenty years ago. Same ol' same ol'. I saw plenty of out of control behavior from NYC's finest while living there, too, so nothing much those guys do would surprise me. Most places, I get along fine with the police and really appreciate their work. In New York, I had a different experience.

[SXSMITH]

Originally Posted by thelazyone

The 3 NYPD officers accused of firing 50 bullets and killing an unarmed man have been found not guilty. I just hope the law abiding citizens of NYC remain calm and collective. I would hate to see another Rodney King incident take place in the streets of NYC.

Yeah, especially with the National Guard out of town! Yikes!

[clockworkjon]

I don't think you even need 50 bullets to bring down a charging elephant, much less an unarmed man. Its those kinds of cops that give LEOs a bad rep. A-holes.

[FastNinja76]

Get in ma belly!!

[HighsideSV]

Originally Posted by clockworkjon

I don't think you even need 50 bullets to bring down a charging elephant, much less an unarmed man. Its those kinds of cops that give LEOs a bad rep. A-holes.

I don't have a problem with the volume of fire. Police are trained, at least these days, to dump their magazines. This does make sense, if you are shooting a person it is because you need to stop them from killing you. Dead is dead, wether you shoot 2 rounds or 16, but with 16 you can be sure they aren't going to continue posing a threat.

The problem I have is that this guy was unarmed and that the officer that started shooting was not wearing a uniform and, according to witnesses, did not identify himself as a police officer. The undercorver officer began firing into the vehicle, which prompted the other officers to conclude that he had a reason for doing so and follow suit. The driver attempted to flee, which is a pretty logical thing to do when getting shot at, and placed the officers in a position to continue firing untill the vehicle stopped.

I have always had a problem with police officers who are dressed just like regular people drawing their weapons and expecting citizens to behave as if they were cops. Some guy walks out of a night club in street clothes, points a gun at me, and it doesn't matter what they hell he says to me, I am behaving as if he is just some guy that has pulled a gun on me. I think a LOT of people would have reacted the same way as the people that got shot. I am sitting in my car, not doing anything illegal, and see some guy in street clothes pull a pistol and point it at my vehicle, I am punching the gas too.

There is something deeply wrong when engaging in logical, non-criminal behavior, is enough to get you justifiably killed by the police.

[psudy]

They paint a little different picture. I guess it comes down to who you believe.


"The victims and shooters were set on a fateful collision course by a pair of innocuous decisions: Bell's to have a last-minute bachelor party at Kalua Cabaret, and the undercover detectives' to investigate reports of prostitution at the club.

As the club closed around 4 a.m., Sanchez and Isnora claimed they overheard Bell and his friends first flirt with women, then taunt a stranger who responded by putting his right hand in his pocket as if he had a gun. Guzman, they testified, said, "Yo, go get my gun" — something Bell's friends denied.

Isnora said he decided to arm himself, call for backup -- "It's getting hot," he told his supervisor -- and tail Bell, Guzman and Benefield as they went around the corner and got into Bell's car. He claimed that after warning the men to halt, Bell pulled away, bumped him and rammed an unmarked police van that converged on the scene with Oliver at the wheel. The detective also alleged that Guzman made a sudden move as if he were reaching for a gun.

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Guzman said Isnora "appeared out of nowhere" with a gun drawn and shot him in the shoulder — the first of 16 shots to enter his body.

"That's all there was — gunfire," he said. "There wasn't nothing else."


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With tires screeching, glass breaking and bullets flying, the officers claimed that they believed they were the ones under fire. Oliver responded by emptying his semiautomatic pistol, reloading, and emptying it again, as the supervisor sought cover.

The truth emerged when the smoke cleared: There was no weapon inside Bell's blood-splattered car."

MSN

[baldheadeddork]

Originally Posted by HighsideSV

I don't have a problem with the volume of fire. Police are trained, at least these days, to dump their magazines. This does make sense, if you are shooting a person it is because you need to stop them from killing you. Dead is dead, wether you shoot 2 rounds or 16, but with 16 you can be sure they aren't going to continue posing a threat.

The problem I have is that this guy was unarmed and that the officer that started shooting was not wearing a uniform and, according to witnesses, did not identify himself as a police officer. The undercorver officer began firing into the vehicle, which prompted the other officers to conclude that he had a reason for doing so and follow suit. The driver attempted to flee, which is a pretty logical thing to do when getting shot at, and placed the officers in a position to continue firing untill the vehicle stopped.

I have always had a problem with police officers who are dressed just like regular people drawing their weapons and expecting citizens to behave as if they were cops. Some guy walks out of a night club in street clothes, points a gun at me, and it doesn't matter what they hell he says to me, I am behaving as if he is just some guy that has pulled a gun on me. I think a LOT of people would have reacted the same way as the people that got shot. I am sitting in my car, not doing anything illegal, and see some guy in street clothes pull a pistol and point it at my vehicle, I am punching the gas too.

There is something deeply wrong when engaging in logical, non-criminal behavior, is enough to get you justifiably killed by the police.

+1

No gun, no collaborating witnesses to the police claims that one of them said "Yo get my gun", and witnesses did said the police did not identify themselves before they started shooting.

If this wasn't a criminal act, it damn well was negligence that should cost all of them their jobs.

[psudy]

Originally Posted by baldheadeddork

+1

No gun, no collaborating witnesses to the police claims that one of them said "Yo get my gun", and witnesses did said the police did not identify themselves before they started shooting.

If this wasn't a criminal act, it damn well was negligence that should cost all of them their jobs.

Devils advocate, but the witnesses were drunk(more than likly at 2-3am) outside a strip club in the ghetto after it closed. Not exactly a cop friendly environment.

[baldheadeddork]

That's not being a devil's advocate, that's grasping for straws.

[psudy]

I have no reason to "grasp for straws." They were found not guilty, and thats not to say I agree with the way they handled it. I guess I can see how things would have gotten out of hand quickly. I bet there was fault on bothsides, the only problem is one side was armed.

[HighsideSV]

Originally Posted by psudy

They paint a little different picture. I guess it comes down to who you believe.


"The victims and shooters were set on a fateful collision course by a pair of innocuous decisions: Bell's to have a last-minute bachelor party at Kalua Cabaret, and the undercover detectives' to investigate reports of prostitution at the club.

As the club closed around 4 a.m., Sanchez and Isnora claimed they overheard Bell and his friends first flirt with women, then taunt a stranger who responded by putting his right hand in his pocket as if he had a gun. Guzman, they testified, said, "Yo, go get my gun" — something Bell's friends denied.

Isnora said he decided to arm himself, call for backup -- "It's getting hot," he told his supervisor -- and tail Bell, Guzman and Benefield as they went around the corner and got into Bell's car. He claimed that after warning the men to halt, Bell pulled away, bumped him and rammed an unmarked police van that converged on the scene with Oliver at the wheel. The detective also alleged that Guzman made a sudden move as if he were reaching for a gun.

Story continues below ↓
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
advertisement

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guzman said Isnora "appeared out of nowhere" with a gun drawn and shot him in the shoulder — the first of 16 shots to enter his body.

"That's all there was — gunfire," he said. "There wasn't nothing else."


Click for related content
In the line of fire, cops are on their own
Dateline: Shoot or don't shoot?
Shooting barrage survivor takes stand
Slain groom's father testifies


With tires screeching, glass breaking and bullets flying, the officers claimed that they believed they were the ones under fire. Oliver responded by emptying his semiautomatic pistol, reloading, and emptying it again, as the supervisor sought cover.

The truth emerged when the smoke cleared: There was no weapon inside Bell's blood-splattered car."

MSN

The problem is that the officer's account still doesn't justify the shooting, or make a lot of sense. Why does the guy ram a van? He is running from a guy with a gun. The fact is that the officer not only shot first, it was only the police that did any shooting at all. The only way that can be justifies is if the officer really believed that he was going to get shot, and that is quite a stretch, even with the officer's account.

[psudy]

Wheres the fucking taser when you need one, huh. I would have to agree. Its sounds like a stretch on the justification.

[HighsideSV]

Originally Posted by psudy

Wheres the fucking taser when you need one, huh. I would have to agree. Its sounds like a stretch on the justification.

Tazer wouldnt be applicable here. IF the guy actually was shooting at officers then what they did would have been correct. If he didn't shoot at officers he did absolutly nothing to warrent even the use of a Tazer. Think about that for a second. Using a tazer here would have been questionable, and they shot three people with real bullets and walk at trial. Thats messy.

[baldheadeddork]

Originally Posted by psudy

Devils advocate, but the witnesses were drunk(more than likly at 2-3am) outside a strip club in the ghetto after it closed. Not exactly a cop friendly environment.

One last thing - why do you say this happened in the ghetto?