It'll be time to leave Iraq when.....

[Baldrick]

Right Wingers love generalizations. They don't require detail or careful thought.

[FastNinja76]

You sure are casting alot of stones. Especially given the fact that you cant remember the car bomb in the basement.

Take it easy lefty.

[psudy]

Originally Posted by Baldrick

Right Wingers love generalizations. They don't require detail or careful thought.

Left wingers love to beat dead horses, point fingers, bitch and complain like girly men and offer no solutions.

[vr4playa]

Originally Posted by Baldrick

How about you explain why WE STARTED the war (WMD, Al Qaeda In Iraq and links of Saddam to 9/11 have been proven completely FALSE, so don't even try to use them as reasons)? You can call it "surrender" all you want, but you'd be an idiot apologist for doing so.

Edit to add: Would you rather keep giving all that money to Blackwater, Halliburton and other such companies that produce nothing of use to the greater economy of the United States (remember how much more their people get paid than our soldiers and Marines, and how poor their logistical support activities have been)? I'd rather see it spent to rebuild our roads/bridges/schools/whatever here at home, than pissed away in that sandbox.

yea we could definitely use some roadwork here in IL and our wonderfully corrupt leader(Blagojevich) is more concerned with a $40million project to tear down and build a "memorial" to the NIU tragedy.... while there should be a proper memorial for such a meaningless act of violence, the state has much more pressing needs and for $40million there's a lot more they can do to improve that campus....


as for Iraq... gotta love that all the initial reasons for going there have been unfounded and now the biggest excuse for staying is to minimize the damage caused by Dum'yas idiocy

goes to show that policing the world is only for entertainment purposes(Team America: World Police) and we have much more pressing issues at home than worrying about the rest of the world....

[ASCI_Blue]

You can't win a war against an ideal, you need a physical enemy that one can see and kill. This war will be over when the US falls or Afghanistan is repopulated by whites. Your choice.

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by FastNinja76

Your theory is sound, except it wouldn't.

We spend more money on education now than ever before in history. It hasn't gotten better, only worse. Its an interesting case study in the ineffectiveness of huge government programs. Its no wonder that private school students test vastly superior to public schools. Ahhhhhhh socialism...

Can you please tell us how you decided that education "hasn't gotten better, only worse?" What time period are you using? What data underpins your conclusion? All the indicators I've seen go the other way.

You are correct in one way, spending is no guarantee of quality, but your assertion goes a lot farther than that.

In any event though, wouldn't you rather see that money wasted here (and not killing people) more than wasted there (and killing people?)

[Gaolee]

Originally Posted by Wakey

Please explain why we should surrender a war..

We already won the war. Remember? We can bring the troops home any time without surrendering to anybody. First of all, there's nobody to surrender to. A vague noun? I doubt nouns care much. Then there's the thing about how Iraqis are shooting at each other for tribal reasons. We aren't going to stop them from doing that until they get tired of it. Then there's the problem with the deficit. If we quit dumping money into a sandbox quagmire, our economy would be far better off in the long run. As it is, we are bleeding ourselves dry, just like OBL wanted us to. The longer we drag it out, the longer we play into his hands.

If you want to deal with an individual you don't like in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan, you go in quickly, pop him, and leave quickly. You are not going to get anywhere by staying there longer. The British and Russians found out. The Ottomans did a bit better, but they were Turks and ruled the place more like Sadam than we would. Not to mention the lower level of armament in the area during their time in the hot seat.

The place is impoverished and unstable. They go hand in hand, and we are not going to solve anything by blowing up stuff and hanging around. The longer we are there, the more we will have our weapons stolen a little at a time, and the more organized resistance we will face. Paying off the locals only works as long as somebody else doesn't come along and pay the locals more.

One more thing. What is winning there, anyway? Nobody can say. So, I guess it doesn't exist.

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by psudy

Left wingers love to beat dead horses, point fingers, bitch and complain like girly men and offer no solutions.

And you just love to bitch whine and complain and moan about what goes on down here while coming back, over and over. Everything you say you've already said before, over and over. So what's the point of your "contribution?"

Trust me dude. No one misses you when you stomp off in a huff. Mostly, no one notices. So if you're not having a good time, leave like a man this time.

[Baldrick]

Originally Posted by Gaolee

One more thing. What is winning there, anyway? Nobody can say. So, I guess it doesn't exist.

There are some folks that you'll never, ever convince of that, but they will never understand that it's a War On (insert vague noun the denotes an insubstantial feeling, or ideology).

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by Baldrick

There are some folks that you'll never, ever convince of that, but they will never understand that it's a War On (insert vague noun the denotes an insubstantial feeling, or ideology).

The now-infamous 28%.

[gospeed81]

just because you're swinging the hammer doesn't mean you're driving a nail

[Gaolee]

Originally Posted by gospeed81

just because you're swinging the hammer doesn't mean you're driving a nail

What a great turn of phrase!

[gospeed81]

Originally Posted by Gaolee

If we quit dumping money into a sandbox quagmire, our economy would be far better off in the long run. As it is, we are bleeding ourselves dry, just like OBL wanted us to. The longer we drag it out, the longer we play into his hands.

If you want to deal with an individual you don't like in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan, you go in quickly, pop him, and leave quickly.

It's times like these I'm glad I read all the way through posts. I had actually never considered the possibility that the first point might have been exactly what OBL wanted. It's so easy for him to run and hide while we barge in, expend our military and resources, and when we do finally leave, he and others like him can easily pick up the pieces with less resistance to their movements.

The only problem is our administration thought we could eventually profit from the folly. That is the real reason we are there. They deemed a strong central presence in the politically important, and maybe even economically viable. Neither are true. While some still argue the truth of the former, the latter has proven false to the tune of nearly a trillion dollars.

Your second point resounds now more than ever.

I understand the national security aspects of the situation, but we could do more with a fraction of the money through REAL intelligence and decisive acts against individuals. We would also probably have more multilateral support with this method than simply shipping all the boys and the toys over there.

SABCnews.com - world/the_middle_east

If you want any better reason to not be there in force, it's because they don't want us there. We really have no right to occupy the region, nor should we have the desire. It is their land, their culture has thousands of years of history there, and their faith(s) are much stronger and longer lasting than our fickly public opinion of an ever-more-costly war.

[county]

Originally Posted by gospeed81

.

I understand the national security aspects of the situation, .

Well, let's hear it. I, and I imagine many others, don't.