Bush is worst President in American history...

[AlphaRider]

Originally Posted by vr4playa

ah yes the thing that got us in this mess... only gonna get us in it more, lol "Economic Stimulus Plan", it's just as misleading as the "Patriot Act".... it's funny how making money out of nowhere is supposed to help the sagging dollar and bring the economy back when in reality it's just gonna put us more in debt and in China's back-pocket

atleast Reagan had the "decency" of calling his policy "Trickle Down Economics", you know... the ppl on top are peeing on the middle and lower class...

If you think we're pulling money out of nowhere then your very wrong. There are very few options left for us besides raising interest rates which will only push us into a deeper recession. We need people to spend money and businesses to take out loans from banks. This is impossible with higher interest rates. Raising taxes will likely only hurt the middle/lower class causing less spending.

Higher taxes on incomes over $250k will most likely help.....Hell, it's what Clinton did.

[mike honcho]

Originally Posted by AlphaRider

What politicians are you even talking about? The heads of the Fed (Federal Reserve) serve a 14 year term. The point of this is so that politics stay as much out of the way as possible.

The money hand outs are very justifiable in our current situation. Do you really think $600 is a big enough bribe to make you vote for someone you hate? lol

The Fed isn't issuing the "economic stimulus" it's the congress.

Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ben Bernanke suggested an economic stimulus, but it was passed incredibly fast by congress.

[636blurr]

Originally Posted by Wakey

Another thing to keep in mind for our current fiasco is all the homeowners pulling 2nd and 3rd mortgages and burning the money.

Treating your home like it was a bank is an awful idea.

Also energy prices are through the roof (duh). This trickles down to absolutely everything.

Naturally that is blamed on Bush as well

Congress probably makes more money on oil than the oil companies do via all the assorted taxation.

If Congress wants to lower costs they could pass on their portion of the profit, couldn't they?

Yup people have to take some responsibility in there own lives. Simple math allowes them to figure it out, but most choose just to live ignorent.
hell 30 year house loans are a losing proposition even.

[AlphaRider]

Originally Posted by mike honcho

The Fed isn't issuing the "economic stimulus" it's the congress.

Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ben Bernanke suggested an economic stimulus, but it was passed incredibly fast by congress.

Your right about that, but do you really think congress is going to sit down and decide what to do about the economy? Do you think they know what they're talking about? I like to see how many f'ing senators have a degree in economics or CS.

The reason it was passed so quickly is because they trust Ben. Although he's not quite as persuasive as Paul Volcker who pretty much did whatever the f he wanted too without question. If you mention Volcker to anyone who owned a small business back in the 80's they will punch you in the face.

[636blurr]

Originally Posted by AlphaRider

Your right about that, but do you really think congress is going to sit down and decide what to do about the economy? Do you think they know what they're talking about? I like to see how many f'ing senators have a degree in economics or CS.

The reason it was passed so quickly is because they trust Ben. Although he's not quite as persuasive as Paul Volcker who pretty much did whatever the f he wanted too without question. If you mention Volcker to anyone who owned a small business back in the 80's they will punch you in the face.

You ever see the voting record for most of these jack asses?
I think mike is putting to much faith in them personally.
But im tired and dont feel like arguing (yup the meteor is on the way) so fuck it,

[AlphaRider]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

You ever see the voting record for most of these jack asses?
I think mike is putting to much faith in them personally.
But im tired and dont feel like arguing (yup the meteor is on the way) so fuck it,

[BusaDave]

Originally Posted by AlphaRider

We need people to spend money and businesses to take out loans from banks. This is impossible with higher interest rates. Raising taxes will likely only hurt the middle/lower class causing less spending.

It's almost completely consumer confidence that drives the economy. You think $600 of money borrowed against the deficit is going to fix that?

We've only begun to see the inflation from $4/gal gas prices. Consumers are going to tighten their belts. Money will not loosen up until these consumers are confident they will have jobs and can manage the inflation coming down the pike.

If you really want to stimulate the economy you have to deal with the job situation and stop scaring the crap out of everyone.

[Dakota Kid]

Originally Posted by mike honcho

Ok, tell me how people defaulting on home equity loans isn't their fault? Nobody forced them to sign the loan, or accept the adjustable rate. They could have taken a fixed rate that they knew they could pay off each month. Taking an ARM is risky.

Nothing's ever the individual's fault, right, it's society's.

Personal accountability is a term liberals would rather not discuss.

[county]

Originally Posted by mike honcho

Ok, tell me how people defaulting on home equity loans isn't their fault? Nobody forced them to sign the loan, or accept the adjustable rate. They could have taken a fixed rate that they knew they could pay off each month. Taking an ARM is risky.

Nothing's ever the individual's fault, right, it's society's.

You ever get a mortgage?

The lenders check everything, it's not that easy. But fact is that all these sub prime loans were making money for the lenders til the sky fell in. They wanted those high interest loans and were minimizing the risk in selling that paper. This fiasco rates up there with the S&L debacle and trying to lay it off on personal responsibility is taking a childish and short sighted view.

Plus you ignored my point about Bush creating the climate for this situation. obut

[jim schmidt]

The flaw in the system was that mortgage brokers could sell loans, then lay them off to servicing entities.

At some point, they figured out that they could sell low or no or phony doc loans and have no risk to themselves.

This problem would not have happened if these brokers were selling their own paper. No matter how gullible the borrowers were, what we're seeing is the result of grifting, not borrower stupidity.

[AlphaRider]

Originally Posted by BusaDave

It's almost completely consumer confidence that drives the economy. You think $600 of money borrowed against the deficit is going to fix that?

We've only begun to see the inflation from $4/gal gas prices. Consumers are going to tighten their belts. Money will not loosen up until these consumers are confident they will have jobs and can manage the inflation coming down the pike.

If you really want to stimulate the economy you have to deal with the job situation and stop scaring the crap out of everyone.

It is consumer confidence which leads to concumer spending which drives the economy. That is exactly why they are so hush hush about it, they dont want to scare people and create a run on the banks as I said earlier.

And yes I do think $600 borrowed against the deficit will help that. It is part of the Keynesian theory, the government will increase gov't spending during a "recession" and/or lower tax rates to increase the demand.

Not increasing gov't spending and lowering taxes is a primary reason for the GREAT DEPRESSION. The other reasons included us staying on the gold system too long, raising tarrifs on imports, and raising taxes.

A budget deficit in a depression is not harmful, the gov't borrowing activates excess saving.

[SAHTT]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

The flaw in the system was that mortgage brokers could sell loans, then lay them off to servicing entities.

At some point, they figured out that they could sell low or no or phony doc loans and have no risk to themselves.

This problem would not have happened if these brokers were selling their own paper. No matter how gullible the borrowers were, what we're seeing is the result of grifting, not borrower stupidity.

Great post Jim.

[jiffy]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

Not hardly. It's not the killing that differentiates these leaders, its the purpose and the reasoning and the pointlessness or not.

Pointlessness? Many wars in the past have been pointless, it just depends on your perspective.

[Baldrick]

How very true (and very sad) that is...