Even more improbable than Dems and guns

[gospeed81]

Commentary: Democrats finally getting religion on religion - CNN.com

If the Democratic Party is serious about fostering a relationship with the faith community, they are going to have to come to grips with the fact that there are Democrats of faith who are pro-life and against gay marriage, but who are in agreement on other social issues such as the response to the rapid rise of HIV/AIDS and eradicating poverty.

This is a poorly written article (esp. for an "award winning" writer), but brings up some interesting points.

Have heard the candidates, especially Obama speak a lot more about faith this time around. It has made me wonder whether there are real, great liberal candidates that believe, or if they are waxing this as a ploy to bring over middle of the road conservative zealots to the dark, err, democratic side.

I personally welcome the opportunity to be "religious" and still support progressive policy makers, and never understood how religion dictated that we stand on one side of the line due to a simple disagreement on a couple of hot issues. I honestly think the violent opposition from both sides has created the chasm. Either way I'm tired of crummy republican candidates using the moral card to keep this large block of voters behind them and their misguided policies.

I guess this means I'll have to accept party mates that are pro-choice and anti-sanctity, but I think those shouldn't be federal issues anyhow, but left to the states. The values of my faith are in line with civil rights anyhow, and so I always wondered how being Christian went in hand with banding together and passing policy that affected the way others live their lives.

One nearly benign example is Texas baptists keeping us from buying alcohol until 12 on sundays. Who cares if you're still in church, I went at 7, and damnit, I'm ready to get my drink on. Neil Bortz (fellow Texas Aggie) was talking about this the other day. He's slightly offensive, but so are many that actually think through the issues. He's also a personal responsibility turd, but that gets him more listeners here in Libertoonland. Agree on a few things though, and is entertaining while studying.

My other thought is that this might be the final seperation of church and state. By accepting the fact that there are many believers and that faith will always be there, we can simply acknowledge this part of our humanity and move on to more important issues. This is idealistic and there will still be friction on tons of issues, but alleviates the common perception among christians that we have to be pc with minority groups, but everyone can make fun of christians and our god all day. By recognizing that there are believers on both sides of the aisle, we can probably get past some of the issues, or atleast tone down the fierceness of the opposition.

btw, this IS the ultimate P&R thread.

[jim schmidt]

Democrats have always been religious in about the same proportion as Republicans. Republicans haven't always admitted it and have pandered to the un-Christian segment of Christians in this way.

I'm not partisan in this regard -- I'm not religious at all and I find all religions to be an equal mix of superstition, grifting, and sometimes, good works.

When you look at the subject as an outsider, it is impossible to conclude that Democrats were ever not religious.

[bumblebee]

I think Boortz is spot on about most everything he says...especially on taxes and personal responsibility...for a lawyer...

[gospeed81]

I'm not saying they're not religious, just that they are not being more open to it, and have changed my perception of libs, as well as that of others apparently

It's common perception, proven through surveys, that repubs are more religion friendly (55 to 29). It's the old personal liberty vs religious values debate.

I guess I'm trying to say I'm excited that the dems are coming out and saying you can value both (without being a libertoonian)

but thanks for raining on my thread

[gospeed81]

Originally Posted by bumblebee

I think Boortz is spot on about most everything he says...especially on taxes and personal responsibility...for a lawyer...

I think he's a genius, but just a little crass in regards to helping our fellow man.

I admit he's probably seen a lot more from more sides than the average poster, but still rubs me sometimes as the guy that pulls out the "fat black lady in the cadillac picking up her food stamps" card as a reason to do away with social programs.

Only started listening recently though, so hope to have a clearer picture of his stances soon

[Gaolee]

Churches and religious people have been at the forefront of all kinds of movements over the years, both liberal and conservative. Off the top of my head, I can cite the Civil Rights movement, opposition to the Vietnam war, environmental activism, support for education, and support for the poor and diseased as "liberal" causes religious people have led and been a major part of. Among the more "conservative" movements religion has been a big part of include the Spanish Inquisition, Jonestown, the current GOP's attempt at a bloodless coup in this country, Iran's government, abstinence education, and the cutoff of funding for various family planning and disease control assistance programs in places like Africa.

So, which exhibits true faith and which is a load of crap? I leave that to you to decide for yourself.

[gospeed81]

Originally Posted by Gaolee

the current GOP's attempt at a bloodless coup in this country

lmfao

I think this is why I'm excited G, you gotta remember this is only my third cycle. As I stated above my faith has always led me to more liberal political views. Also, I'm glad that the Dems are coming out (again I guess, thanks for the breakdown), especially after the last eight years of gop-religious conservative circle jerking.

[bumblebee]

Originally Posted by gospeed81

I think he's a genius, but just a little crass in regards to helping our fellow man.

I admit he's probably seen a lot more from more sides than the average poster, but still rubs me sometimes as the guy that pulls out the "fat black lady in the cadillac picking up her food stamps" card as a reason to do away with social programs.

Only started listening recently though, so hope to have a clearer picture of his stances soon

Read his book, Somebody's Gotta Say It!

[Gaolee]

Originally Posted by gospeed81

lmfao

I think this is why I'm excited G, you gotta remember this is only my third cycle. As I stated above my faith has always led me to more liberal political views. Also, I'm glad that the Dems are coming out (again I guess, thanks for the breakdown), especially after the last eight years of gop-religious conservative circle jerking.

Real faith does lead to what get called liberal positions. If you are not paying attention, some of the false prophets who pass themselves off as religious leaders might make you think true faith makes you conservative. It doesn't, almost by definition. You have to have a very narrow read and you have to focus on selective parts of the Old Testament and ignore most everything except Revelations in the New in order to come up with come of the more cockamame religious right positions. The history of fundamentalist churches is only about a century long, and it stems from the same wack job narrow thinking that gave us Communism.

Just saying.

[shah269]

I can't wait till we evolve past this god shit!
I mean really! God...imaginary guy in the sky? yeah pleas really get real will ya!
If you were to start walking around declaring that you had an imaginary friend and he created the universe and all that ever existed and he could read your mind.....well odds are you would be picked up and heavily medicated.
But replace imaginary friend with god and Americans will give you a blank check to ass rape them with a broom! How freaking dumb do we look!
And how dumb do you have to be to actually give a rats ass about an elected officials religious preferences!
If you ask me, given the choice, give me the guy who swears on a semi used stack of Swank Magazines. Now that's the guy I want! At least he is honest with me and himself!

[BigArn]

Originally Posted by shah269

If you ask me, given the choice, give me the guy who swears on a semi used stack of Swank Magazines. Now that's the guy I want! At least he is honest with me and himself!

And his member. What's left of it.

[shah269]

Who cares, I mean at least when the shit hit's the fan this guy or gal won't turn to some imaginary guy in the sky who he or she can only see and who he or she can only hear!
I mean come on the last time we tried this we got "I spoke to a higher father" and we entered a war could have avoided and are now paying threw the fucking nose!
No I'm sorry, I'll take any one and I do mean any one as long as they don't rely on imaginary friends for guidance and support!

[Gaolee]

The probability is we live in an infinite universe with infinite time. Given infinite dimension and time, not only is anything possible, anything is probably. Therefore, science proves the existence of God through probabilities and logic.

[EEfz6]

Originally Posted by Gaolee

The probability is we live in an infinite universe with infinite time. Given infinite dimension and time, not only is anything possible, anything is probably. Therefore, science proves the existence of God through probabilities and logic.

So, according to you, it is probable that, somewhere, I am having a threesome with Jessica Alba and Kate Hudson?

Dang, how do I get there?

[Gaolee]

Originally Posted by EEfz6

So, according to you, it is probable that, somewhere, I am having a threesome with Jessica Alba and Kate Hudson?

Dang, how do I get there?

Oh, yeah! You bet. It is a mystery, though. I will let you know once I figure it out. Oh, and after I am done.