Obama and Guns: Two Different Views

bumblebee · 04-09-2008, 01:50 PM

Monday, April 07, 2008

By John R. Lott, Jr.

Something happens to Democrats on the gun issue when they run for president. For John Kerry during 2004, it was awkwardly posing in brand new hunting gear at a seemingly endless series of hunting photo-ops.

But in what will probably be the most improbable change, the Politico reported on Saturday that Barack Obama was making a big play for gun votes in Pennsylvania. It is not particularly surprising that this change is occurring with the crucial Pennsylvania primary soon approaching.

With about one million of the country’s 12.5 million hunters, Pennsylvania is number one in the nation in the amount of time its citizens spend hunting. With about 600,000 people with permits to carry concealed handguns, Pennsylvania also has more permit holders than any other state.

Others, such as Jim Kessler, vice president for policy with Third Way, a progressive think tank, view Obama as starting to position himself for the general election.

Yet, it should be a hard sell.

Obama has consistently supported gun control legislation that came up while he was in the Illinois state legislature and the U.S. Senate.

For example, when Obama ran for the Illinois state senate the political group, Independent Voters of Illinois (IVI), asked him if he supported a “ban [on] the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns” and he responded “yes.”

Realizing how damaging this could prove in the general election, his presidential campaign “flatly denied” Obama ever held this view, blaming it instead on a staffer from his state senate race.

But then IVI provided Politico the questionnaire with Obama’s own handwritten notes revising another answer. Members of IVI’s board of directors, some of whom have worked on Obama’s past campaigns, told Politico that “I always believed those to be his views, what he really believes in, and he’s tailoring it now to make himself more palatable as a nationwide candidate.”

But the IVI questionnaire isn’t the only one out there.

In 1998, another questionnaire administered by IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test didn’t ask about banning all handguns, but it did find that Obama wanted to “ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.”

Indeed, such a ban would outlaw virtually all handguns and the vast majority of rifles sold in the United States.

In addition, from 1998 to 2001, Obama was on the board of directors for the Joyce Foundation, which funded such anti-gun groups as the Violence Policy Center, the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, and Handgun Free America. Both the Violence Policy Center and Handgun Free America, as its name suggests, are in favor of a complete ban on handguns. During his tenure on the board, the Joyce Foundation was probably the major funder of pro-control research in the United States.

In fact, I knew Obama during the mid-1990s, and his answers to IVI’s question on guns fit well with the Obama that I knew. Indeed, the first time I introduced myself to him he said “Oh, you are the gun guy.”

I responded “Yes, I guess so.” He simply responded that “I don’t believe that people should be able to own guns.”

Read the rest here...

FOXNews.com - Obama and Guns: Two Different Views - Opinion

BigArn · 04-09-2008, 01:58 PM

Let the flip flop begin.

bush · 04-09-2008, 02:04 PM

You're not helping gun owners on this forum by posting links from Fox.

Seriously.

bumblebee · 04-09-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bush

You're not helping gun owners on this forum by posting links from Fox.

Seriously.

I am posting an article by John Lott...If it had been published in the Bagdad Times, I would have still posted it...

Do you know who John Lott is? He is a senior research scientist at the University of Maryland...you know...that bastion of conservatism?

jim schmidt · 04-09-2008, 02:24 PM

Surely you're not claiming that John Lott is not a very conservative economist, are you? I'm in a great mood and I'd hate to have to shoot you down today. ;-)

gospeed81 · 04-09-2008, 02:34 PM

didn't we decide about 4 threads back that:

1. there are more important issues this cycle

2. POTUS has very little to do with gun rights

3. no one will take our guns away from us anytime soon

4. accuracy is more important than caliber

but if you guys really want to hash another gun thread, go right ahead, I'll be out in the garage cleaning mine

SlowGoose · 04-09-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bush

You're not helping gun owners on this forum by posting links from Fox.

Seriously.

Snerk....

bumblebee · 04-09-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

Surely you're not claiming that John Lott is not a very conservative economist, are you? I'm in a great mood and I'd hate to have to shoot you down today. ;-)

I say he fits U of M about like Glenn Beck on CNN...

Baldrick · 04-09-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gospeed81

didn't we decide about 4 threads back that:

1. there are more important issues this cycle

2. POTUS has very little to do with gun rights

3. no one will take our guns away from us anytime soon

4. accuracy is more important than caliber

but if you guys really want to hash another gun thread, go right ahead, I'll be out in the garage cleaning mine

We did, but the rabid NRA types just can't let it go. Typical of single issue voters...

BigArn · 04-09-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baldrick

We did, but the rabid NRA types just can't let it go. Typical of single issue voters...

Why do you hate OUR freedom?

Jackle1886 · 04-09-2008, 03:54 PM

Because many have died to give him the freedom to not care about our freedom.

Gaolee · 04-09-2008, 04:00 PM

You guys are studiously missing the point, as do most single issue thinkers. Gun rights are only one of a number of rights we have to defend. If you have been paying attention, you will know it isn't a simple digital issue. Even the NRA knows that. You cannot buy a fully automatic rifle. Is that an issue the NRA gets bent about? Not that I am aware of. Consistency is usually a sign of clear thought. Gun foamers are rarely consistent, and will often give up all other freedoms as long as they can do anything they want with their guns.

It is a tool, people. The Constitution doesn't say the right to bear Uzis shall not be abridged. There are all kinds of arms. Also, there's the old bugaboo of a well regulated militia. Do you guys belong to a militia? So, what's that all about, anyway? Explain it to me. I will listen, but I will also point out where your logic falls apart, just as I am more than happy to point out anybody elses logical failings. Gun ownership and enthusiasm doesn't make you any more special than motorcycle ownership and enthusiasm makes any of us special.

BigArn · 04-09-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaolee

You guys are studiously missing the point, as do most single issue thinkers. Gun rights are only one of a number of rights we have to defend. If you have been paying attention, you will know it isn't a simple digital issue. Even the NRA knows that. You cannot buy a fully automatic rifle. Is that an issue the NRA gets bent about? Not that I am aware of. Consistency is usually a sign of clear thought. Gun foamers are rarely consistent, and will often give up all other freedoms as long as they can do anything they want with their guns.

It is a tool, people. The Constitution doesn't say the right to bear Uzis shall not be abridged. There are all kinds of arms. Also, there's the old bugaboo of a well regulated militia. Do you guys belong to a militia? So, what's that all about, anyway? Explain it to me. I will listen, but I will also point out where your logic falls apart, just as I am more than happy to point out anybody elses logical failings. Gun ownership and enthusiasm doesn't make you any more special than motorcycle ownership and enthusiasm makes any of us special.

Once they get one away from US, the rest will fall very fast. Fight for your freedom, so many have before us, we can not let them down now.

Gaolee · 04-09-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigArn

Once they get one away from US, the rest will fall very fast. Fight for your freedom, so many have before us, we can not let them down now.

Emotional argument, not supported by logic. Try again.

kevin_stevens · 04-09-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaolee

You guys are studiously missing the point, as do most single issue thinkers. Gun rights are only one of a number of rights we have to defend. If you have been paying attention, you will know it isn't a simple digital issue. Even the NRA knows that. You cannot buy a fully automatic rifle. Is that an issue the NRA gets bent about? Not that I am aware of. Consistency is usually a sign of clear thought. Gun foamers are rarely consistent, and will often give up all other freedoms as long as they can do anything they want with their guns.

It is a tool, people. The Constitution doesn't say the right to bear Uzis shall not be abridged. There are all kinds