As expected, no candidate will attend a debate on scientific issues

[FastNinja76]

Originally Posted by gtramontelli

I'm interested in following this story. Part of the reason I am fed up with the current administration is its commitment to faith and religion. I would like to see a return to a more evidence-based decision making strategy in the white house. The fact that stem cell research is illegal is disgusting.

Uhhhh, wrong.

Stem cell research has been going on for years. Where have you been?

[gtramontelli]

Originally Posted by FastNinja76

Uhhhh, wrong.

Stem cell research has been going on for years. Where have you been?

I've been in the USA. Here is the legislation:

Federal Policy
The President's Criteria
On August 9th, 2001, President George W. Bush announced that federal funds may be awarded for research using human embryonic stem cells if the following criteria are met:

The derivation process (which begins with the destruction of the embryo) was initiated prior to 9:00 P.M. EDT on August 9, 2001.
The stem cells must have been derived from an embryo that was created for reproductive purposes and was no longer needed.
Informed consent must have been obtained for the donation of the embryo and that donation must not have involved financial inducements.
NIH's Role
The NIH, as the Federal government's leading biomedical research organization, is implementing the President's policy. The NIH funds research scientists to conduct research on existing human embryonic stem cells and to explore the enormous promise of these unique cells, including their potential to produce breakthrough therapies and cures.

Investigators from 14 laboratories in the United States, India, Israel, Singapore, Sweden, and South Korea have derived stem cells from 71 individual, genetically diverse blastocysts. These derivations meet the President's criteria for use in federally funded human embryonic stem cell research. The NIH has consulted with each of the investigators who have derived these cells. These scientists are working with the NIH and the research community to establish a research infrastructure to ensure the successful handling and the use of these cells in the laboratory.

***

Basically any embryonic cells being researched were harvested 9pm on 9/9/01. No new EMBRYONIC stem cells can be harvested in the USA. While you are correct in saying that the research does happen, I'd say that this legislation puts a pretty severe cap on the amount of research that can be done.

Imagine being a researcher that is thinking of experimenting on a stem cell. If you destroy that cell, you have destroyed one of a limited number of specimens. Do you think that makes advancement more likely, or less likely?

LinkFederal Policy [Stem Cell Information]

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I was referring to embyronic stem cell research, not adult or umbilical. The embryonic stem cells are the ones that seem most promising.

[FastNinja76]

Originally Posted by gtramontelli

I've been in the USA. Here is the legislation:


EDIT: Just wanted to add that I was referring to embyronic stem cell research, not adult or umbilical. The embryonic stem cells are the ones that seem most promising.

I keep hearing that! Problem is this: embryonic stem cells have NOT shown promise. In fact, its the ADULT stem cells that have shown real results. Its not your fault for not knowing this. Abortion advocates use this lie as a smoke screen in a pathetic attempt to cheapen life. There, I said it.

This is why stem cell research continues, there have been results.

[BusaDave]

One thing to consider is that they could avoid this debate to prevent causing problems for science that is already practiced and funded.

That's probably giving too much credit...just a thought.

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by FastNinja76

I keep hearing that! Problem is this: embryonic stem cells have NOT shown promise. In fact, its the ADULT stem cells that have shown real results. Its not your fault for not knowing this. Abortion advocates use this lie as a smoke screen in a pathetic attempt to cheapen life. There, I said it.

This is why stem cell research continues, there have been results.

I think people like you are the reason that the candidates won't be holding a debate on scientific issues.

But in the interest of learning something new, just where did you learn the "fact" you've stated above?

[FastNinja76]

Because of people like me!! You give me far too much credit...but I humbly accept.

Here is one, when you're done reading this, dont forget to source it at the bottom...

Adult Stem Cell Success

This article says that there have been "no proven results" from embryonic stem cell, this is not true today. The point is that the vast majority of proven results have been achieved without destroying human life. Thats all.

[Dr. D Gas]

{didnt read the whole thread}

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally Posted by FastNinja76

Because of people like me!! You give me far too much credit...but I humbly accept.

Here is one, when you're done reading this, dont forget to source it at the bottom...

Adult Stem Cell Success

This article says that there have been "no proven results" from embryonic stem cell, this is not true today. The point is that the vast majority of proven results have been achieved without destroying human life. Thats all.

Gee, what a suprise...

"The Family Research Council (FRC) is a reactionary Christian right non-profit think tank and lobbying organization. It was formed in the United States by James Dobson in 1981 and incorporated in 1983. The group was designed to be a lobbying force for conservative legislation on Capitol Hill. In the late 1980s the group officially became a division of Dobson's main organization Focus on the Family, but in 1992 IRS concerns about the group's lobbying led to an administrative separation. Its function is to promote what it considers to be traditional family values. The current president is Tony Perkins.

The Family Research Council has been publicly involved in promoting socially conservative views on many issues, including divorce, homosexuality, and abortion. The Church Report ranks FRC first in the category of Christian political organizations."
Family Research Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"FRC’s Principal Issues:

Since the early 1990’s, FRC has emerged as a leading conservative think-tank championing “traditional family values” by lobbying for state-sponsored prayer in public schools, private school “vouchers,” abstinence-only programs, filtering software on public library computers, the right to discriminate against gay men and lesbians.

FRC’s objective is to establish a conservative Christian standard of morality in all of America’s domestic and foreign policy.

FRC has dedicated itself to working against reproductive freedom, sex education, equal rights for gays and lesbians and their families, funding of the National Endowment for the Arts and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. FRC supports a school prayer amendment and would like to ‘disestablish’ the Department of Education."
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=4211

You wouldn't happen to know a guy named RajFACTboy, would you, FatNinja?

[gtramontelli]

Originally Posted by FastNinja76

I keep hearing that! Problem is this: embryonic stem cells have NOT shown promise. In fact, its the ADULT stem cells that have shown real results. Its not your fault for not knowing this. Abortion advocates use this lie as a smoke screen in a pathetic attempt to cheapen life. There, I said it.

This is why stem cell research continues, there have been results.

This doesn't even make sense. Do you know what a stem cell is?
EDITED TO ADD:
The source you quoted is heavily biased in this area. In fact, they lobby against abortion. Do you think they might choose data to support their position on this matter?

Another example of religious doctrine affecting legislation...

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Gee, what a suprise...

Yea, we all saw that coming.

Aren't they the same people who brought you the sex education causes death argument? And this little gem...

FRC is opposed to the availability of the morning after pill (or Plan B) and other hormonal drugs over the counter without a prescription. Hormonal medications require the oversight of a physician or medical provider throughout the duration of drug usage, in order to screen for the existence or the subsequent development of contraindications.

FRC supports the pregnancy resource center (PRC) movement, which seeks to come alongside women, men, girls, and their families during pregnancy with the provision of accurate information, education, emotional support, and critical resources and referrals.

Motherhood in the context of marriage promotes positive health outcomes for women.

I don't think one could find more lies on a single website except perhaps for godhatesfags.com.

[HighsideSV]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

Unfortunately, Solly, this says more about the voters than it does about the candidates.

Indeed it does. The voters don't care enough about these issues to demand a stance from their candidates. That means more status quo on some of the more important things that are facing the leadership of this nation.

There is of course the moronic contingent of voters that demands absurd religion-based stances on scientific issues, and they (sadly) represent a large enough block of voters to require placation.

[TheSollyLama]

exactly my point, friends. It's not that they are simply uneducated in the extreme on the most important topics (yet they all know a million ways to hide shady dealings with campaign donors) but worse, they are so arrogant to as not even think they need to address any of the really important issues to get votes from dullards that knew who they were voting for the moment the first mud slinging commercial aired.

The candidates are a reflection of the American public. Stupid. Frankly put and pulling no punches, the average American is a dolt. Didn't we finish like one spot ahead of Turkey on math or something?

If the people aren't only largely ignorant as fuck- like posting links to obvious rightwing christian mouthpiece 'tests' as evidence- but they just DON'T CARE that they are..........

[FastNinja76]

Nice investigative work fellas!

No shit on the source, I knew that. The point I was making was at the bottom when I said that it was untrue.

Im only pointing out that adult stem cells have had real, proven results that cant be discounted (as much as you guys might try).

[SlowGoose]

Originally Posted by FastNinja76

Nice investigative work fellas!

No shit on the source, I knew that. The point I was making was at the bottom when I said that it was untrue.

Im only pointing out that adult stem cells have had real, proven results that cant be discounted (as much as you guys might try).

Of course they can't be discounted. No more so than any other available avenue in stem cell research.

Then again, if the idea is to cure us of death..... well that presents its own set of problems.