Sometimes it's hard to be nice to others...

[david223]

Originally Posted by TheSollyLama

we went into Afghanistan because that was the HQ of Osama and company. That invasion was completely understandable.

It's the Iraq invasion that is questionable in relation to 9/11. Although by all standards Iraq should have been invaded, and it should have been done a decade before GW did it.

Whether the timing of the Iraq invasion was very smart or not is more of the issue than whether it deserved invasion. Certainly Saddam needed removed- he had violated UN resolutions and the conditions of his surrender more times than you can count.

But afghanistan certainly wasn't some made up boogeyman. The Taliban and Al Queda worked hand in hand, and gave safe haven to the terrorists. Clinton bombed afghanistan several times in (a very weak) retaliation for attacks during the 90's. So to claim the afghan campaign was some GW scheme is asinine and ignores history.

I wasn't implying it was a GW scheme, just that GW is no closer today than he was then to getting Bin Laden. Anyway, the Afghanistan reference was in response to 636blurr's statement that Canada was also playing world police by being there. I was just trying to point out the different roles the US and Canada played and are playing there.

[david223]

Originally Posted by Wakey

I agree David, Canada is usually there to pitch in and your armed forces are quite capable but you have to admit, we do the heavy lifting.

I'll agree that some Americans like myself are arrogant, at least in the sense that I could give a fuck what anyone thinks of my country. We do what we do because we think it's right and the naysayers can go pound sand.

I wish we would quit bitching about the lack of love out there. Is that how you raise your kids?

Yes, I will most definitely agree that the US usually does the heavy lifting, and I have nothing but respect for the men and women out there doing that lifting, heavy or not, serving their country, regardless of which country that is - US or Canada. Maybe we should just leave it at that, and everyone does their share, based on what they can do. Don't forget you have 10 times our population. It's only logical that you should have a bigger share!

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by TheSollyLama

we went into Afghanistan because that was the HQ of Osama and company. That invasion was completely understandable.

It's the Iraq invasion that is questionable in relation to 9/11. Although by all standards Iraq should have been invaded, and it should have been done a decade before GW did it.

Whether the timing of the Iraq invasion was very smart or not is more of the issue than whether it deserved invasion. Certainly Saddam needed removed- he had violated UN resolutions and the conditions of his surrender more times than you can count.

But afghanistan certainly wasn't some made up boogeyman. The Taliban and Al Queda worked hand in hand, and gave safe haven to the terrorists. Clinton bombed afghanistan several times in (a very weak) retaliation for attacks during the 90's. So to claim the afghan campaign was some GW scheme is asinine and ignores history.

I agree with this. The problem in Iraq isn't that we invaded; Saddam's actions combined with the U.N. corruption in the Oil-for-Food scheme made it necessary. The problem is that we should have (1) simply and directly defeated their army, (2) deposed Saddam, (3) inspected for the WMDs, and (4) left. We got 3 out of 4 right, but then stayed to "help" them restructure their society according to our wishes; who thought that was going to work?

Likewise, I agree that deposing the Taliban and hunting down al-Qaeda in Afghanistan was appropriate. The problem is that we've lost sight of the goal and are wandering around nationbuilding again, and haven't even accomplished the primary goal yet. We need to get back focused on hunting down bin Laden and crew, accomplish that, and come home.

And in both countries (and anywhere else there is a threat), then we just keep an eye. And if they screw with us, we go back and stop it. And if they don't, we don't.

PhilB