If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Politics & ReligionWell Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.
About ten years ago, I believed in the seemingly lofty goal of "universal health care". Who wouldn't support that goal? Doesn't everyone have a "right" to health care?
I was just a kid then. It was easy to agree with a meaningless campaign promise such as "Affordable Health Care for All". It takes effort to actually research the topic and understand economic logic, history and facts.
Once I questioned the sound bites, I realized that government intervention in the market (e.g., Medicare, FDA, physician licensing, insurance regulations) is the reason for artificially high health care prices.
So-called Universal Healthcare amplifies all problems because it:
1) Destroys patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available.
I have worked in the health care field in various capacities for the past ten years and I see a majority of patients who currently receive "free" (read: taxpayer-funded) healthcare continually seek care for the most minor afflictions. Why wouldn't they? It's "free" to them so they visit the doctor's office several times a month. "Free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as Tylenol are very common. Patients who refuse to wait for an appointment make their way to the ER for things such as headaches. If you were ever an ER nurse, I know you can verify this.
The current U.S. mostly statist healthcare system also decreases incentives to "shop around" for people who are not receiving direct taxpayer-funded care. If you are paying a set amount per month and your copay is ten dollars per office visit no matter where you go, why bother to look for a better price? Government imposed wage controls during the 1940's carry a large part of the blame for this current state of affairs. Unable to offer competitive salaries, companies started to offer healthcare benefits as a way to lure prospective employees into jobs.
2) Destroys physician incentives to provide competitive care and destroys drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments.
With no incentive to provide quality care, physicians and nurses leave the government-monopolized area for better opportunities in a freer country. Shortages result. Drug companies are hindered by price controls and regulations and soon cease research and development of new medication. In the U.S., start-up drug companies cannot afford to run the FDA gauntlet, so the market is dominated by a few established corporations.
3) Steals from your wallet to pay for my health care.
Yes, you do have a right to health care, just as you have a right to food, shelter and property. However, you have no "right" to force others to provide these things for you - All "free" medical care is paid for through taxes stolen from other people.
I know of one seemingly healthy individual who went to his physician's office 51 times in 26 months. He receives "free" health care from the State, so his trips did not cost him a dime. Who pays for his medications? Who pays for the physicians', nurses' and office staff wages during his visits? If you work within the health care industry, I would bet you could recount similar stories. In my experience, this type of abuse is the rule, not the exception.
4) The quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker.
As the poor and middle-class wait in agony for simple procedures, those with resources can travel to other countries for treatment. But hey, your moral arrogance and justification of coercion makes you feel good, doesn't it?
5) Destroys your privacy.
Suddenly your problems are mine and mine are yours. If you are eating unhealthy foods or driving a motorcycle without a helmet, I have a direct interest in your business - you are going to see a doctor on my tax dollars. Your neighbors might support government bans on smoking, "unsafe" sex or other "risky" behaviors to reduce costs. Politicians will use the federal bureaucracy to force you and your family to comply with programs such as the "New Freedom Commission on Mental Health".
6) Destroys your liberty.
When you blindly support a system that gives politicians and bureaucrats the power to force others to follow a plan, those politicians and bureaucrats will receive their orders from those with the most money - and you can guarantee this will not be you, your friends or your family. The power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies.
A quick search shows that the pharmaceutical companies gave $29,370,351 to political campaigns in 2002. Who do you think has the ear of those elected politicians? You?
On the other hand, if government power is eliminated (e.g., abolish the FDA - whose restrictions benefit the most powerful companies by eliminating most competition), those same companies would have to use their funds and resources to sell their drugs to the most people in the least expensive, most reliable and safest way. They would need to outperform their competitors to get your money - otherwise they lose business.
Some of the links below direct you to newspaper articles from different sources, including historically left-socialist sources such as the New York Times, the BBC, ABC or CNN. These articles show widespread problems such as physician shortages or increased waiting times that are inevitable when businesses are monopolized by the government.
Some of the links below direct you to articles from free-market institutes and groups. The authors use facts and logic to explain the superiority of the free-market process when compared to government bureaucracies. You can dismiss these links as "libertarian hogwash" or you can read the reports and question your own emotionally-based opinion, as I did. Please see Harry Browne's excellent Compassion of the mind and ask yourself if you are hurting others with your socialism.
"Personally, I can't wait for universal health care. From the folks that brought you FEMA, the TSA, the DMV, the IRS, comes universal health care. It's going to be fantastic, to have government in charge of our health."
-Drew Carey
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightfall
kickage of the derrier, that helmet is epic sauce winnage to the maximo bra!
The most important parts of that include the lack of market competition by market makers and the rollback of individual freedom and choice. Clearly it's the harbinger of the Nanny State.
"Personally, I can't wait for universal health care. From the folks that brought you FEMA, the TSA, the DMV, the IRS, comes universal health care. It's going to be fantastic, to have government in charge of our health."
-Drew Carey
USA! USA! USA!
Why do so many people think this is a good idea???
So many people think it is a good idea because personal responsibility is now a foriegn concept to most Amerikans. Everything is somebody else's fault. If I can't get healthcare, it is not my fault. Nevermind the things that I could have done in my past that would have resulted in a different outcome, or the things that I could do now to change my circumstances. Also known as The Pussification of Amerika.
__________________
doublEEsta
Global Warming - A phenomenon where natural climatic cycles coincide with liberal aspirations.
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
So many people think it is a good idea because personal responsibility is now a foriegn concept to most Amerikans. Everything is somebody else's fault. If I can't get healthcare, it is not my fault. Nevermind the things that I could have done in my past that would have resulted in a different outcome, or the things that I could do now to change my circumstances. Also known as The Pussification of Amerika.
So many people think it is a good idea because personal responsibility is now a foriegn concept to most Amerikans. Everything is somebody else's fault. If I can't get healthcare, it is not my fault. Nevermind the things that I could have done in my past that would have resulted in a different outcome, or the things that I could do now to change my circumstances. Also known as The Pussification of Amerika.
It's the Nanny State. Nobody wants to take responsibility. Nobody wants to be held accountable. "It's not my fault because [insert asinine reason here]."
Here in Canada we have universal health care and it is pretty nice. Don't have to worry about going bankrupt if I get sick. The government pays for the care
Here in Canada we have universal health care and it is pretty nice. Don't have to worry about going bankrupt if I get sick. The government pays for the care
The government doesn't pay for anything. Taxpayers do.
__________________
doublEEsta
Global Warming - A phenomenon where natural climatic cycles coincide with liberal aspirations.
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
While I don't think that universal healthcare is the solution we absolutely need some type of healthcare reform. MOST americans simply don't have access to health care. And the fact that you think that that is their fault is wrong. If you don't have insurance you don't have access to health care it is that simple. When you are poor and trying to make ends meet and you can either choose insurance or food I don't think I need to point out which one you are going to pick. How about when I injured my knee in college with no health insurance because I chose to educate myself rather than get a job with benefits? I had to go to the ER to even get seen and then they misdiagnosed me and treated me like shit because I didn't have insurance. I fail to see how that was my fault.
__________________
"You've not got much padding there." Fan
"If I go off here, I'm not going to need any bloody padding." David Jeffries
While I don't think that universal healthcare is the solution we absolutely need some type of healthcare reform. MOST americans simply don't have acces
Universal Healthcare
