If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Politics & ReligionWell Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if your weak of heart.
Posts: 8,309
Casino Cash: $12033
Sportbike: Katana - For the man who has nothing to prove
Thought Crime Prevention Bill Passes House Vote
This was slipped under the radar while most folks were busy calling/writing/emailing senators to stop the latest amnesty bill. It worked, but damn it all, we fell for the bait 'n switch.
What is HR.1955?
It's more legislation that would make more American people "potential terrorists." The Patriot Act gave the government the ability to spy on terrorists, this bill makes us all very possible targets. If you're a vocal critic of the US government, you'd have a good chance of fitting the mold of "homegrown terrorist" because of your idealogy.
Under this bill, the Founding Fathers would be labeled as domestic terrorists by the associated committee if they were alive today, and they would be dealth with accordingly.
"(8) Any measure taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism in the United States should not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens or lawful permanent residents."
So it's all OK, see, they have our best interests in mind and we should support them unquestioningly. But here you are asking questions. What are you, some kind of home-grown terrorist?
Also, "c) Auditing Mechanism- The Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Officer of the Department of Homeland Security [] shall develop and implement an auditing mechanism to ensure that compliance with this subtitle does not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of any racial, ethnic, or religious group, and shall include the results of audits under such mechanism in its annual report to Congress required under section 705.'."
See? They'll make sure it will all happen with all due respect for our rights, and the Civil Rights commissar will ensure that any measures and restrictions that are taken against any actual dangerous group will be also applied to oppress everyone else equally so as to avoid any racial profiling. Politically correct fascism; it's the new style, sure to become all the rage in any fashionable country.
=====
This is an important step forward in the proper development of this country. We have never had a proper Stasi, and while the BATFE has been serving well in the interim, it is just getting too busy to handle those duties on the scale we clearly need in order to keep Americans properly trained and conditioned.
=====
Seriously, yes, let's all do what we can to fight this.
PhilB
__________________
'93 Ducati Monster 900
151,000 miles (so far)
After 3 readings of the bill (plus morning coffee) it appears to me that this bill forms a committee.
I see no new enforcement powers, nor new laws, nor new definitions of old laws/powers that are being redefined.... just looks like yet another pointless commission getting together for a round of security theater.
Posts: 8,309
Casino Cash: $12033
Sportbike: Katana - For the man who has nothing to prove
Quote:
Originally Posted by thorn
After 3 readings of the bill (plus morning coffee) it appears to me that this bill forms a committee.
I see no new enforcement powers, nor new laws, nor new definitions of old laws/powers that are being redefined.... just looks like yet another pointless commission getting together for a round of security theater.
am i overlooking something obvious?
thorn
I'll go through a few things that bother me. Let me start by saying I'm extremely critical of any legislation - I don't trust anything government does. It's been proven time and time again that a government with power will abuse it, and I feel it's my duty as a citizen to remain alert and objective.
Quote:
Sec 899B.
(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.
...
(7) Individuals prone to violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence span all races, ethnicities, and religious beliefs, and individuals should not be targeted based solely on race, ethnicity, or religion.
This is specifically targeting citizens of the United States. This isn't about Islamofascists blowing up buildings, this is about people like us. We have been recognized as a likely target.
I provide to you Exhibit A, a counter-terrorism flyer from the FBI. Pay special attention that "defenders of the Constitution" are considered domestic terrorists. Any police officers, soldiers, or elected officials in the house?
Also notice that referencing the US Constitution during a traffic stop makes you a potential terrorist. A sad thing indeed, when speaking of your rights makes you a threat to the establishment.
Quote:
(8) Any measure taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism in the United States should not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens or lawful permanent residents.
(9) Certain governments, including the United Kingdom, Canada, and Australia have significant experience with homegrown terrorism and the United States can benefit from lessons learned by those nations.
...
SEC. 899E. PREVENTING VIOLENT RADICALIZATION AND HOMEGROWN TERRORISM THROUGH INTERNATIONAL COOPERATIVE EFFORTS.
`(a) International Effort- The Secretary shall, in cooperation with the Department of State, the Attorney General, and other Federal Government entities, as appropriate, conduct a survey of methodologies implemented by foreign nations to prevent violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism in their respective nations.
`(b) Implementation- To the extent that methodologies are permissible under the Constitution, the Secretary shall use the results of the survey as an aid in developing, in consultation with the Attorney General, a national policy in the United States on addressing radicalization and homegrown terrorism.
`(c) Reports to Congress- The Secretary shall submit a report to Congress that provides--
`(1) a brief description of the foreign partners participating in the survey; and
`(2) a description of lessons learned from the results of the survey and recommendations implemented through this international outreach.
In other words, what can we do to make the US more Australian/Canadian/UK? Hints: Less guns, less criticism of government, and the willingness to give up freedom for security. I'm seeing this as a means to more control measures. Like we don't have enough.
I see a nanny-state forming in the image of the aforementioned countries. Joe Biden introduced another assault weapons ban (I have not read it, but I hear it rivals HR1022 in lunacy). The Patriot act remains in effect, and the government has asked for even more unchecked power to closely watch citizens.
If the threat of terrorism is so real, why do we only hear about the islamofascists from the mainstream media, and nothing about this? Neocon talking points revolve around how Islam is such a violent religion hell-bent on eliminating western civilization. So why no mention of the grave domestic threat?
Is it possible that our politicians recognize the real threat to their ruling class? Who are they more afraid of, the threat of Islam, or the dissatisfaction of 200 million citizens?
After 3 readings of the bill (plus morning coffee) it appears to me that this bill forms a committee.
I see no new enforcement powers, nor new laws, nor new definitions of old laws/powers that are being redefined.... just looks like yet another pointless commission getting together for a round of security theater.
am i overlooking something obvious?
thorn
Yes, you're right, this bill does not create the secret police yet. It is merely forming a study group to figure out how to do so. There is a difference between "security theater", which is designed to make people feel better with no real effect, and efforts like this that are going to make dangerous recommendations that may likely be followed.
I agree with Bush that this is a dangerous precursor to more increases in the development of a police state.
PhilB
__________________
'93 Ducati Monster 900
151,000 miles (so far)
Posts: 8,309
Casino Cash: $12033
Sportbike: Katana - For the man who has nothing to prove
So far I've gathered the following:
1. The "Political Class" has been complacent in the erosion of our rights.
2. This bill will create a committee so Congress can deal with American terrorists.
3. That committee will be tasked with preventing American terrorists from threatening the continuity of government.
Quote:
`SEC. 899A. DEFINITIONS.
`For purposes of this subtitle:
`(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.
`(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.
`(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian populatio
Thought Crime Prevention Bill Passes House Vote
] shall develop and implement an auditing mechanism to ensure that compliance with this subtitle does not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of any racial, ethnic, or religious group, and shall include the results of audits under such mechanism in its annual report to Congress required under section 705.'."
Politically correct fascism; it's the new style, sure to become all the rage in any fashionable country.
