Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally: 400 this month!

[jiffy]

Putting someone in prison for life or even 30 years is more or less equal to putting someone to death IMHO. I would not want to serve 30 years right now for something I did not do. So, from the standpoint of wrongful convictions get rid of prisons completely. Very extreme perspective but from what you are saying it is close to equal. So there is no real answer is there?

[Bredebee]

Originally Posted by OFFICER737

I think more states should start enforcing the death penatly instead of just letting people sit on death row until they die of natural causes.

Seriously , and they sit there while good people pay for it through taxes , I don't know anyone else but I'd rather give my hard earned money to keep child molesters , rapists and mass murders going .

[guardianofvalhalla]

Originally Posted by PhilB

Death row inmates are a very small percentage of the prison population. If your issue is the cost of imprisonment, then promoting the death penalty is about #2000 on the effectiveness list. Stopping the War on Drugs would be #1. Getting rid of any and all other victimless "criimes" would follow. The prison population would plummet, and the courts would greatly free up, and we could then deal with the actual crimes that people commit in a fair and considered manner for much less money spent.

PhilB

The "war on drugs" is a joke. So, if justifying a joke is your top priority, go ahead. There is no such thing as a victimless crime. A crime is a crime, regardless on whether you agree with it or not. Or, if you think the offense is silly, or victimless, or unjust, blah, blah, blah. The fact remains that is the laws currently stand, they exist and must be adhered to for the good of all society. If you don't like the laws, then change them, or shut up about them being unfair. That isn't an argument, but a whining excuse.

Make up your mind. Either the system works, or it doesn't, as you attempted to imply in a later post.

[guardianofvalhalla]

Originally Posted by mike honcho

I know to some people on this thread, my opinion doesn't matter because I'm a tree hugging pussy faggot commy. I'm pro-life, therefore, I'm anti-death penalty. If one person is wrongfully convicted and put to death, then it is wrong.

Guardianofvalhalla, I'm surprised at how immature your posts are, especially at 36 years old. Someone has a conflicting opinion, so your response is to call them names. And what I find funnier, is how if anyone disagrees with how the government is run, they are communists. I thought that doing whatever the government says to do is communism?

Immaturity, as measured by yourself, doesn't make it a reality, but I do appreciate the attempt. Who did I directly call a name? If you can tell me who I called a name in this thread, then I will apologize. Until then, do not come at me with accusations without having any facts to support them. Well, if that's what you think communism is, then maybe you should go back and read the communist manifesto. That is your assumption based on what modern day's mess of an interpretation of communism is. True communism is actually nothing like that, but more closely resembles the "Robin Hood" taxation tactics of today's American liberal parties. Make everyone work hard to pay for everyone else. Communism is a system where no individual has any personal responsibility, only a responsibility to do what benefits the whole. The current communist governments have distorted what communism was intended to be, just as our current political machines have severely distorted what our founding fathers intended for our country.

[Guitar Man]

I have always kind of felt like I was on the fence about the death penalty. I think that taking a life in any sense is no small matter. Also should a woman be allowed an abortion if she is raped? I feel like the death penalty is needed though. And yes there should be hard evidence that the crime was committed and that there would be no wrongfull executions.

I don't think there ever has or will be a perfect justice system. But we have to have something in place that will deter crime.

The highs over that period were in 1997 and 1999, years in which 37 death sentences were handed down. But in 2005 only 14 convicts were condemned to die in Texas.

The longer trend is a decline of homicides over the past 30 years with a peak of 2,652 in 1991 in Texas and 1,407 in 2005. And fewer murders should translate into fewer death sentences.

I think that the statistics from the article speak for themselves. It seems that even though the justice system is not 100% effective there is progress being made.

It also pains me to see a child molested or a woman raped by a repeat offender. To me the justice system has failed these people. If the problem would of been taken care of the right way to begin with these people would not have to bear the emotional scars that they will have to carry around for the rest of their lives. And unfortunately some of these look to suicide or drugs and alcohol because they don't know how to cope.

Crime permiates society much deeper that people think. And if left unchecked will cause irrepairable damage.

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by jiffy

Putting someone in prison for life or even 30 years is more or less equal to putting someone to death IMHO. I would not want to serve 30 years right now for something I did not do. So, from the standpoint of wrongful convictions get rid of prisons completely. Very extreme perspective but from what you are saying it is close to equal. So there is no real answer is there?

Except that death is final and irreversible. A life sentence for an innocent would surely suck, but at least there would be a chance at some point that the truth would come out and the person would have some life left to live instead of just being dead.

No I wouldn't want to serve a single day for something I didn't do. Duh. And nothing that I am saying implies getting rid of prisons or the justice system at all. I'm only saying that, given that the system isn't perfect and can't be made so, allowing it to execute people is an unacceptable risk.

PhilB

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by guardianofvalhalla

The "war on drugs" is a joke. So, if justifying a joke is your top priority, go ahead. There is no such thing as a victimless crime. A crime is a crime, regardless on whether you agree with it or not. Or, if you think the offense is silly, or victimless, or unjust, blah, blah, blah. The fact remains that is the laws currently stand, they exist and must be adhered to for the good of all society. If you don't like the laws, then change them, or shut up about them being unfair. That isn't an argument, but a whining excuse.

Make up your mind. Either the system works, or it doesn't, as you attempted to imply in a later post.

I agree that the War on Drugs is a joke, albeit not a very funny one. I wasn't "justifying" it; I was clearly suggesting ending it. I'm not sure how you managed to misunderstand that.

I agree that there is no such thing as a victimless crime, since if there is no victim there is no crime. Nonetheless, there are a great many things that are victimless, that have been made illegal, and are therefore crimes in the eyes of the law. And that's a crime in itself, since it *does* have victims: those who get punished for performing actions that don't harm anyone else.

No, all laws do *not* need to be adhered to "for the good of all society". There are a great many laws that are simply unjust, and which our society would be better off not having. Blindly obeying whatever crap gets handed down from our honorable elected officials is a good way to (continue to) let society run downhill. Bad laws *should* be protested. If we can get them changed, then great, but saying "If you don't like the laws, then change them" is bullshit if we have little or no influence to actually make that happen (which is the case).

And it's not black-and-white that "Either the system works, or it doesn't"; the system sort of works and sort of doesn't. The idea is to try to get the system to work better. Shutting up about unfair laws doesn't help with that. So no, I'm not going to do that.

In short, your post is wrong, wrong, wrong. After the first seven-word sentence, not one shred of sense.

PhilB

[mgw24]

Does anyone really care about canada?

[BusaDave]

Originally Posted by guardianofvalhalla

The "war on drugs" is a joke. So, if justifying a joke is your top priority, go ahead. There is no such thing as a victimless crime. A crime is a crime, regardless on whether you agree with it or not. Or, if you think the offense is silly, or victimless, or unjust, blah, blah, blah. The fact remains that is the laws currently stand, they exist and must be adhered to for the good of all society. If you don't like the laws, then change them, or shut up about them being unfair. That isn't an argument, but a whining excuse.

Make up your mind. Either the system works, or it doesn't, as you attempted to imply in a later post.

Oh come now! Even the legal system acknowledges that there are levels of crime. Even murder has degrees attached to seriousness and motive.

Claiming that there is no such thing as victimless crime is patently ridiculous.

[guardianofvalhalla]

Originally Posted by BusaDave

Oh come now! Even the legal system acknowledges that there are levels of crime. Even murder has degrees attached to seriousness and motive.

Claiming that there is no such thing as victimless crime is patently ridiculous.

Levels or degrees of severity has nothing to do with the existence of a victim or not. In a so-called victimless crime, you are the victim! Nowhere is it stated that the victim has to be an entity other than the perpetrator himself. Also, the legal system acknowledges that a crime cannot exist without a victim!

Your illogical attempt at a parallel is patently ridiculous, but welcomed, nonetheless.

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by guardianofvalhalla

Levels or degrees of severity has nothing to do with the existence of a victim or not. In a so-called victimless crime, you are the victim! Nowhere is it stated that the victim has to be an entity other than the perpetrator himself. Also, the legal system acknowledges that a crime cannot exist without a victim!

Your illogical attempt at a parallel is patently ridiculous, but welcomed, nonetheless.

A person is not a victim of his own actions. That's what is called natural consequences, and should be how people learn how not to be stupid. The state does not have the duty (or even the right) to protect people from themselves. Protecting people from the effects of their own stupidity just creates more stupidity.

The legal system does not acknowledge that a crime cannot exist without a victim; many people get arrested for actions that harm no one but themselves (and sometimes that don't even harm themselves, like getting arrested for selling sex toys to other adults), and these "crimes" get charged by the state (People vs. Guy Who Was Minding His Own Business). No victim necessary, except of course they've created one by fucking up someone's life who wasn't causing anyone any problems.

PhilB

[ped]

hows that lyric go...

"ill be the one to protect you from, your enemies and your choices son, one and the same i must isolate you, isolate and save you from yourself"

yeah thats how it goes, pretty good.


but will someone please think about the children. cause a victimless crime can still hurt our perfect norman rockwell society as a whole through them.

[guardianofvalhalla]

Originally Posted by PhilB

A person is not a victim of his own actions. That's what is called natural consequences, and should be how people learn how not to be stupid. The state does not have the duty (or even the right) to protect people from themselves. Protecting people from the effects of their own stupidity just creates more stupidity.

The legal system does not acknowledge that a crime cannot exist without a victim; many people get arrested for actions that harm no one but themselves (and sometimes that don't even harm themselves, like getting arrested for selling sex toys to other adults), and these "crimes" get charged by the state (People vs. Guy Who Was Minding His Own Business). No victim necessary, except of course they've created one by fucking up someone's life who wasn't causing anyone any problems.

PhilB

I will not attempt to argue whether it is right or wrong, or fair or just. I will tend to agree with you on this, however, it is what it is for right now, and will stay that way until changed.

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by guardianofvalhalla

I will not attempt to argue whether it is right or wrong, or fair or just. I will tend to agree with you on this, however, it is what it is for right now, and will stay that way until changed.

What is right or wrong, or fair or just, is what really matters. That's what the system is supposed to be about. It is what it is, but it can only be changed for the better through concerted effort by people who give a damn about what is right or wrong, or fair or just.

PhilB

[ARRA757-89-91]

Originally Posted by Guitar Man

I have always kind of felt like I was on the fence about the death penalty. I think that taking a life in any sense is no small matter. Also should a woman be allowed an abortion if she is raped? I feel like the death penalty is needed though. And yes there should be hard evidence that the crime was committed and that there would be no wrongfull executions.

I don't think there ever has or will be a perfect justice system. But we have to have something in place that will deter crime.

The highs over that period were in 1997 and 1999, years in which 37 death sentences were handed down. But in 2005 only 14 convicts were condemned to die in Texas.

The longer trend is a decline of homicides over the past 30 years with a peak of 2,652 in 1991 in Texas and 1,407 in 2005. And fewer murders should translate into fewer death sentences.

I think that the statistics from the article speak for themselves. It seems that even though the justice system is not 100% effective there is progress being made.

It also pains me to see a child molested or a woman raped by a repeat offender. To me the justice system has failed these people. If the problem would of been taken care of the right way to begin with these people would not have to bear the emotional scars that they will have to carry around for the rest of their lives. And unfortunately some of these look to suicide or drugs and alcohol because they don't know how to cope.

Crime permiates society much deeper that people think. And if left unchecked will cause irrepairable damage.

============================================

Fuck them all.....

I hope it hurts when it happens too...

How about the families destroyed by these killers...huh....


Come to think of it, I only wish dog fighting carried the same penalty and that Vick played for the Cowboys.....