Sean Penn: Total idiot

[Fargin_Bastige]

Now, I hate George Bush as much as the next guy who hates George Bush, but to patronize a government that oppresses it's people, suppresses information, suppresses free speech and is run by what amounts to a tribal idiot is a bit much.

Hey Sean, our president is a moron, but that doesn't mean the grass is greener on the other moron.

Originally Posted by The Guardian UK

Sean Penn tours Venezuela


Rory Carroll
Monday August 6, 2007
The Guardian


Sean Penn had the Hollywood Oscar but Hugo Chávez had the greater star power when they teamed up for a roadshow through Venezuela. The actor and the president toured the border region with Colombia last Friday in a convoy of bodyguards, journalists and wellwishers who punctuated their stops with cheers.
Mr Chávez, ebullient, cheerful and on occasion bursting into song, praised his American guest as "a man who is critical of his government and of imperialism" and included him among the left-wing foreigners who have supported his socialist revolution.

Inflammatory liberal newspaper

[jim schmidt]

I'm for letting Venezuela pick their own President. It seems to have worked out better for them than for us.

Highlights:
*Medical care is now free. Prior it was pay-as-you-go (we know how *that* goes...)
*Primary Care Physicians: 1200% increase (1,628 to 19,571)
*Emergency rooms: number doubled
*Clinics: up 529% (1,628 to 8,621)
*Poverty Rate: down 31% overall; poorest down >60%
*Unemployment: more than halved (an increase of about 1.9 million jobs in the private sector and 478 thousand jobs in the public sector since 1998.)
*Inflation: Halved
*Food for the Poor: 15,726 stores offering 27-39% discount over retail. Prior to Chavez gov't there were none.
*Primary Education: enrollees up 400% (271,593 to well over 1million. This does not count the one million additional people now enrolled in literacy programs which did not even exist pre-Chavez.)
*Foreign debt: Halved. Venezuela's total national debt as percentage of GDP (23.8%) is about 1/3 that of the US federal economy.
*Federal Budget- balanced, with surplus.

Venezuela spends 20% of it's GDP on social programs--medical care, combating poverty, and education. In comparison, the entire US Federal budget is 20% of the US GDP.

Venezuela's GDP per capita is 7200$. The US GDP per capita is *six times as much*--44,000$.


http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...la_2007_07.pdf

[Fargin_Bastige]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

I'm for letting Venezuela pick their own President. It seems to have worked out better for them than for us.

Highlights:
*Medical care is now free. Prior it was pay-as-you-go (we know how *that* goes...)
*Primary Care Physicians: 1200% increase (1,628 to 19,571)
*Emergency rooms: number doubled
*Clinics: up 529% (1,628 to 8,621)
*Poverty Rate: down 31% overall; poorest down >60%
*Unemployment: more than halved (an increase of about 1.9 million jobs in the private sector and 478 thousand jobs in the public sector since 1998.)
*Inflation: Halved
*Food for the Poor: 15,726 stores offering 27-39% discount over retail. Prior to Chavez gov't there were none.
*Primary Education: enrollees up 400% (271,593 to well over 1million. This does not count the one million additional people now enrolled in literacy programs which did not even exist pre-Chavez.)
*Foreign debt: Halved. Venezuela's total national debt as percentage of GDP (23.8%) is about 1/3 that of the US federal economy.
*Federal Budget- balanced, with surplus.

Venezuela spends 20% of it's GDP on social programs--medical care, combating poverty, and education. In comparison, the entire US Federal budget is 20% of the US GDP.

Venezuela's GDP per capita is 7200$. The US GDP per capita is *six times as much*--44,000$.


http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...la_2007_07.pdf

Your missing out on a few parts that should be mentioned.

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=americas&c=venezu

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr530052004

Like I said, the grass is not greener on the other moron.

[scatterbrained]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

I'm for letting Venezuela pick their own President. It seems to have worked out better for them than for us.

Highlights:
*Medical care is now free. Prior it was pay-as-you-go (we know how *that* goes...)
*Primary Care Physicians: 1200% increase (1,628 to 19,571)
*Emergency rooms: number doubled
*Clinics: up 529% (1,628 to 8,621)
*Poverty Rate: down 31% overall; poorest down >60%
*Unemployment: more than halved (an increase of about 1.9 million jobs in the private sector and 478 thousand jobs in the public sector since 1998.)
*Inflation: Halved
*Food for the Poor: 15,726 stores offering 27-39% discount over retail. Prior to Chavez gov't there were none.
*Primary Education: enrollees up 400% (271,593 to well over 1million. This does not count the one million additional people now enrolled in literacy programs which did not even exist pre-Chavez.)
*Foreign debt: Halved. Venezuela's total national debt as percentage of GDP (23.8%) is about 1/3 that of the US federal economy.
*Federal Budget- balanced, with surplus.

Venezuela spends 20% of it's GDP on social programs--medical care, combating poverty, and education. In comparison, the entire US Federal budget is 20% of the US GDP.

Venezuela's GDP per capita is 7200$. The US GDP per capita is *six times as much*--44,000$.


http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...la_2007_07.pdf

you seem to conveniently ignore the fact that the monies spent on the social programs come from the sale of oil. We could always start drilling in ANWAR and use the revenues to fund social security and medicaid. How 'bout it Jim?
Also, quantity is not quality. Everyone in England has health coverage, yet the wait is so long that some people die between diagnosis and treatment due to the long waits. Cuba has universal health care, yet where did Castro go when he needed surgery?

Also, if half your country is unemployed and you find work for half of them, thats still a 25% rate of unemployment. It's a lot harder to reduce a rate that's already at record lows. It's that law of diminishing returns.
But I wouldn't expect you to think when your pushing your agenda.

[jim schmidt]

Yet he has a history of turnaround progress and keeps getting elected in democratic elections that are validated by international monitoring. So basically, he's been elected fairly and he's made the lot of his country's people much better. And along the way he's made enemies of Exxon-Mobil, Coneco-Phillips and George Bush.

Come back when the fairness of Venezuelan elections is independently rated lower than the fairness of US elections. Until then, he's the President of his people -- and we're not them.

[ty454]

freedomhouse gives him a pretty shitty rating. About half that of Iran. I don't know the history of freedomhouse though.

[bush]

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

Now, I hate George Bush as much as the next guy who hates George Bush, but to patronize a government that oppresses it's people, suppresses information, suppresses free speech and is run by what amounts to a tribal idiot is a bit much.

I understand what you're saying, but what about Chavez?

[ped]

never trust anything said about a guy that is so udderly hated by the real heads of our country.

[PhilB]

Chavez is following the typical socialist course. Start with a really screwed up situation, manage to make some improvements, mostly through unsustainable means, drive off the smart hardworking and competent people, and eventually collapse in economic ruin.

I fully agree that the Venezuelans have the right to choose their own leaders and make their own mistakes. I don't think the U.S. government should meddle in that. But that's not what FB's post was about. He was simply (and correctly) noting that Sean Penn is an idiot and (like many other celebrity types), is blindly supporting a bad choice out of spite for a different bad choice. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.

PhilB

[Fargin_Bastige]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

Yet he has a history of turnaround progress and keeps getting elected in democratic elections that are validated by international monitoring. So basically, he's been elected fairly and he's made the lot of his country's people much better. And along the way he's made enemies of Exxon-Mobil, Coneco-Phillips and George Bush.

Come back when the fairness of Venezuelan elections is independently rated lower than the fairness of US elections. Until then, he's the President of his people -- and we're not them.

If you want to, you can take 15 minutes and talk to my Grandmother about some of the social improvements Mussolini made in Italy during his regime?

[sexyicecold]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

Yet he has a history of turnaround progress and keeps getting elected in democratic elections that are validated by international monitoring. So basically, he's been elected fairly and he's made the lot of his country's people much better. And along the way he's made enemies of Exxon-Mobil, Coneco-Phillips and George Bush.

Come back when the fairness of Venezuelan elections is independently rated lower than the fairness of US elections. Until then, he's the President of his people -- and we're not them.

Jim,

I lived in Venezuela, with the family of a friend, when Chavez was campaigning for re-election and to change the constitution of the country so that presidential terms were 6 years instead of four.

His elections are only fair because he keeps the poor in the dark. The people do vote for him, but they have limited information on which to base their vote.

The family I lived with was not poor. They were, in Venezuelan standards, "upper middle class." My family had cable television and internet, which more than half of the country does not. They had access to news and information that was not government controlled. If you cannot afford satellite, cable, or internet in Venezuela, you are restricted to watching television stations are government operated. ALL newspapers are government controlled. Furthermore, Chavez recently issued an edict stating no foreigner who criticizes Venezuela the country or Chavez himself would be allowed to stay in the country.

After the elections (I had left Venezuela before they occurred) in which my friend's family did not vote for Chavez occurred, they received threatening, anonymous phone calls saying their youngest son (then 12 years old) would be kidnapped. The calls continued for a few weeks. The caller's voice was disguised. One day, their son did not come home from school on time. He was inadvertently delayed by "strangers" and showed up about three hours late.

These are the kind of scare tactics Chavez and military followers use to ensure the outcome of their elections. How is this fair?

Edit: Back to the topic at hand. If Sean Penn wants to go to Venezuela and see what's really happening there, good for him. Did the story also mention that Sean Penn hardly spoke while he was there?

[ty454]

Originally Posted by sexyicecold

These are the kind of scare tactics Chavez and military followers use to ensure the outcome of their elections. How is this fair?

Gee sounds like a real fair place to live, just like all the great things Jim has to say about it would have you believe.

[Ivan_markII]

I wouldn't worry about Chavez and Venezuela.

Whenever democracy goes too far in one of these Latin American countries the military and the Catholic Church step in to restore law and order.

[blinkEzx7r]

There really was only one way for that country to go....I mean, how much further into poverty could they have gone? i doubt much further than they had gone.....Of course we don't have any of these programs, but i'm sure it's much tougher for a country, rivaled by NONE to implement new health care programs for our "poor"....Especially when you have liberals blocking any and all progress and/or improvements trying to be passed by anyone with an opinion different than their own....We should just do what the dems say, fuck, let's raise the taxes to pay for this new health care system....I sure could use less money....Hate fucking money, don't you? How bot this for a health care system.....Get off your fat, lazy, spoon fed ass and loose the weight, quit smoking and drinking? Nope, why not? Cause people would rather sit around, eat be and Jerry's and take pills to make the "illness" "disappear".....you people are right, shit's bad in this country, mainly because of Democrats. Oh, fuck Michael moore, fat fuck, does a documentary on health care and what's wrong with the system