Judaism, Racism and Hate : WARNING: LONG

[rsw81]

Originally Posted by guardianofvalhalla

I was referring to 5% of the global population being non Orthodox or Hasidic! Not 5% of the Jewish global population! My initial estimates were off. I admitted that and corrected it. The number of Orthodox and hasidic jews is rising rapidly, compared to their not so strict brethren. These are the people that live and die by the laws set forth in the Talmud, and that, I find to be frightening!

This is the first thing you've sad that I agree with. Any religious extremist, including my own religion, are inherintly close minded and frightening. No one here is trying to say that Judaism is better than other religions, we have our own problems as much as anyone else does.

I'm sorry if you are offended that I asked about your wife. I only did so because you brought her up, thus opening the discussion about her. I am not here to question her beliefs, but more to question your intentions for posting such a document.

For accusing those of us defending the Jewish perspective of being so defensive and quick to judge someone as anti-semitic, you are equally as quick to become defensive when any of us have questioned your intentions. The fact of the matter is the document you posted IS antisemitic. You posting it without commentary leads to the reasonable assumption that you either agree with it or are posting it to ruffle people's feathers. Either way, I don't agree with posting something of this magnitude without at least some sort of perspective to give your fellow forum members on what your intentions are. In fact your opening statement leads all of us to believe you do agree with Michael Hoffman:

Originally Posted by guardianofvalhalla

I thought it was interesting, considerring everyone in this country is being distracted by the media to believe that Islam is the physical embodiment of evil. Is it, really?

You are implying that you believe too many people in society are focused on Islam as the evil in the world when in fact they should be thinking that Jews are the evil in this world. I think it is reasonable from reading this that one would assume you agree with Mr. Hoffman and/or are antisemitic yourself. Now that you have clarified your perspective on the matter, I am relieved, but still confused about why you would put something like this on the forums.

Originally Posted by acalliste

"Religious hate" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I can't think of many other things that have created & propagated more hate than organized religion.

This is exactly what I meant before about people losing perspective on what religion was intended to do. It has now created dessention among the people who in fact believe in the same ideal.

[acalliste]

Originally Posted by rsw81

This is exactly what I meant before about people losing perspective on what religion was intended to do. It has now created dessention among the people who in fact believe in the same ideal.

Making the observation that organized religion is corrupt means I've lost perspective?

In theory it's a nice concept, but people being what they are, it almost always ends up being a power trip for a few people who just want to get rich or control what everyone else thinks and does.

If you want to be "religious" look inside yourself for the answers. Why do you need someone else to tell you what to think or believe?

I was watching something on tv, about someone's childhood and that person said that her mother took her to all different churches from many different flavors of religion so that she could see the big picture and decide for herself what she wanted to believe. I thought that was a great idea. The more exposure you have to different ideas and beliefs the better off you are.

[rsw81]

Originally Posted by acalliste

Making the observation that organized religion is corrupt means I've lost perspective?

Sorry Acalliste, that is not what I meant. I am agreeing with you. I am agreeing that religion in the world has created a self-perpetuating cycle of hatred among the religions, giving them cause otherwise unavailable to create war and persecution. Because of this, I am stating that people have lost perspective on what religion was intended to do, not that YOU have lost perspective. Sorry for the confusion.

Originally Posted by acallise

If you want to be "religious" look inside yourself for the answers. Why do you need someone else to tell you what to think or believe?

I agree with this entirely. Although not all of Reform Judaism may agree, this is along the lines of my Rabbi taught us at my Temple growing up. He gave us what the teachings were and then would ask us what we thought of them and what we thought the take home message was. I think this allowed us to take the "stories" of the Torah and take from them what we thought was right vs wrong, good vs evil, truth vs deception. Anyone who takes religious guidance blindly is exactly that, BLIND.

[acalliste]

Gotcha! I'm sorry!

It's past my bedtime, I'm probably not thinking clearly. Nighty-night!

[rsw81]

Originally Posted by acalliste

Gotcha! I'm sorry!

It's past my bedtime, I'm probably not thinking clearly. Nighty-night!

No worries Acalliste, I didn't word it carefully the first time. It's past my bedtime too. I've been on-call for over 36 hrs straight. Sweet dreams!

[guardianofvalhalla]

Originally Posted by PhilB

WTF? "5% of the global population being non Orthodox or Hasidic"?? You've just claimed that 95% of the world is Orthodox or Hasidic Jews. Perhaps you have put a negative where you oughtn't to have? All Jews make up perhaps 2% of the world population. If you argure that Orthodox and Hasidic Jews make up about 1/4 of Jews, and so that Orthodox and Hasidic Jews are about 1/2% of the world population, then you are more in line with reality, or at least making a bit of sense.

Although even then I don't see the real issue here. Even if Mr. Hoffman is right, and some Jews believe in really repulsive things, how is that different from the Christianity that Mr. Hoffman espouses? Yes, Israel has made quite a contribution to the mess in the Middle East, although they certainly haven't done so all by themselves. And worldwide, the damage done by Jewish zealots is miniscule compared to that done by Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or socialist zealots. Why the bug up your nose about Jews?

PhilB

Just because I said 5% of the world's population weren't orthodox, doesn't mean that the rest of the globe is the latter! I said my initial number was wrong, and revised it! Read all of a post before using things in context, which I might add is what you have used as an argument about the crafter of the original document!

Since they are less than 1/2% of the world's pop. the damage they have caused had better be in line with that number or there is a problem! But, I do like how you wanted to amass all of the damage done by other religious zealots over the years, and make it into one cumulative group as leverage for your argument. Nice spin on that one, but I'll play along with you.

I don't have a bug about the Jews! Why are you and others here trying to make me sound like I'm some anti-semitic, heathenous fucking devil? Knock that shit off. I am just about done with your arrogant, accusatory and inflamatory banter regarding my position or beliefs! I have made them clear, and I will no longer adress any post that you direct towards me on this topic again. If you continue to accuse me of being something that I am not, I'll just ask for the thread to be locked, and you can go to another topic and try to paint the "scarlet letter" on someone else's chest!

I hope I have made myself clear.

An open discussion of ideas is fine, your constant attacks an implications that I hate Jews is infuriating and tiresome at best. I am done with you.

[guardianofvalhalla]

Originally Posted by PhilB

He's not only the "foremost scholar of Judaism in the English-speaking world", he's also a prominent reknowned authority on Masons, the "Cryptocracy" and ritual crimes. Not to mention what he calls the "Holohoax". Quite a brilliant and reliable reference you've connected us all to, Mr. Valhalla. We're all in your debt.

PhilB

Go fuck yourself, arrogant asshat!

[OFFICER737]

Locked by OP's request