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Politics & ReligionWell Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.
It is not the case that "blind acceptance of the patently absurd is actually considered a virtue among the religious" for all religions.
Making blanket statements about *all* religions and their practices is no more rational or carefully considered than some of those practices are. Beware of dogmatism yourself.
--Your point is well taken. However the qualification you made saying strains of Buddhism is LESS based on mysticism---still points out it relies on mysticism at some level.
To me that is like saying you agree with 'some' brand of nazism because it isn't quite so heavy with the final solution. That spade is still a spade. The patently absurd is still absurd no matter how little they dabble in it.
When I say I elevate no superstition over another, I don't always mean in a moral sense, and I should be more clear what I mean. True- you see few Buddhists engaging in terrorism. So on that level, it's better than the 'big 3' of western culture. But in it's relationship to reality- I see them as equal.
My overall point is that when you hitch your wagon to hokum and magic, your thinking process is already suspect in my eyes. It proves you are willing to suspend reality to cling to a dogma despite the evidence to the contrary. All religions are neck deep into that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSollyLama
--Your point is well taken. However the qualification you made saying strains of Buddhism is LESS based on mysticism---still points out it relies on mysticism at some level.
To me that is like saying you agree with 'some' brand of nazism because it isn't quite so heavy with the final solution. That spade is still a spade. The patently absurd is still absurd no matter how little they dabble in it.
When I say I elevate no superstition over another, I don't always mean in a moral sense, and I should be more clear what I mean. True- you see few Buddhists engaging in terrorism. So on that level, it's better than the 'big 3' of western culture. But in it's relationship to reality- I see them as equal.
My overall point is that when you hitch your wagon to hokum and magic, your thinking process is already suspect in my eyes. It proves you are willing to suspend reality to cling to a dogma despite the evidence to the contrary. All religions are neck deep into that.
Awesome points, Solly. It's nice to see that somebody can think clearly, rationally and freely in direct opposition to the massive push to become a part of a group and to wear the badge of a label! Organized religion is a crutch for the weak and is becoming a scourge on modern society. More blood has been shed in the name of religion than for any other single reason. Wake up people!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdrushto
I was ready to see carnage... blood, bone, and ligaments, but not guy ass.
Becoming a scourge on modern society? It has been a scourge on nearly every society since organized religion began.
It's human nature to want to be a part of something bigger, and to want to know that something out there is going to take care of all their problems for them, or to pin the bad things on. It takes a superior kind of self awareness and intelligence to be ok with the idea that we are all on our own and responsible for our own actions. If the devil isn't there to blame, who will we point our fingers at - oh, besides people who have different beliefs than us of course!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acalliste
Becoming a scourge on modern society? It has been a scourge on nearly every society since organized religion began.
It's human nature to want to be a part of something bigger, and to want to know that something out there is going to take care of all their problems for them, or to pin the bad things on. It takes a superior kind of self awareness and intelligence to be ok with the idea that we are all on our own and responsible for our own actions. If the devil isn't there to blame, who will we point our fingers at - oh, besides people who have different beliefs than us of course!
AC, this is exactly why you cause me to wake up with morning wood! You have just climbed directly to the top of the hottest woman in the galaxy award!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdrushto
I was ready to see carnage... blood, bone, and ligaments, but not guy ass.
Freud once remarked that religion was akin to a childhood neurosis. And he hit the nail right on the head.
I've never seen any evidence that any religion has any beneficial effect.
Anything accomplished in the name of religion is still accomplished by HUMANS. Be it good or bad, it isn't some unseen hand that does anything whatsoever, but the flesh and blood hands of man.
People that say religion got them through some hard time. Well ya know heroin gets people through hard times too. It's all just a crutch for the weak and an excuse for the profane.
When people realize that they suceeded because of their own hard work, and not because some idiotic prayer was answered- we'll all be better off.
When people accept reality instead of hiding behind some imaginary friend, for good or bad deeds- we'll move forward.
Don't care what you want to call your imaginary friend, what 'book' you think has the answers....all are the imaginings of man. The sooner we quit trying to defend one fairy tale over another, and live in the real world, the sooner the world will improve.
It all comes down to one thing. When you're staring death in the eye it's so much easier to believe that you're destined for some great afterlife vs. ending up as food for maggots and decaying into nothing. It leaves an empty feeling to know that when you're gone, it's all over and you end forever.
I sometimes feel the same way about extinction. I think of something like the Carolina Parakeet and how it's gone forever at the hands of man. It can never return and there will never be anything exactly like it again. Just like the non-avian Dinosaurs. It leaves a hole in my heart that makes me want to invent a religion just so I can pretend that when I die I'll go meet all the Dinosaurs and life will be good. Religion is retarded but I still understand it.
I could also see convincing myself that poachers of rhinos are evil and if I could convince enough other people I could see starting a crusade to kill all the poachers and their families. In the name of my anti-extinction religion, of course.
It all comes down to one thing. When you're staring death in the eye it's so much easier to believe that you're destined for some great afterlife vs. ending up as food for maggots and decaying into nothing. It leaves an empty feeling to know that when you're gone, it's all over and you end forever.
That same thing gives me the opposite feeling, on the days when I think that nothing of our conscious beings survive beyond this life. Believing that your life and death is part of the cycle of life that all living things are part of... if you believe there is no heaven or hell, no judgment, no big soap opera that you are an actor in, everything is so much more simple and enjoyable. You live your life in the best way you can, learn, love, play, work, laugh, cry, enjoy being alive - and when it's over, it's over. Your body goes back into the earth that produced you and life for everything else goes on; life is created, lives and dies in it's turn, just like you.
That, to me, is more beautiful than belief in some moody, vindictive god (created by men) who likes to play games with the lives of 'his' followers.
First of all, just to clarify, I never called the OP an antisemite. I called the author of the text an antisemite. Why someone would post something like this without stating their personal opinion on the matter before everyone else started to react to it is beyond me. Frankly, I'm relieved that you don't necessarily agree with the author. Out of curiousity, how religious is this Jewish wife of yours? I can't speak for her, but I know most Jews would be pretty offended by hearing/reading any of this.
On that note, I will clarify my perspective on religion. I was raised a Jew. I personally am agnostic since I am a biologist and physician by training, thus making it hard for me to believe in something I can't prove. What I do believe in is the morals, ethics, and family values that Judaism instills in their children. I think most people lose sight of what religion was intended to do for society. It was not intended to pose one group against another. I feel that it was implemented to create moral fiber in a society where morality had been lost. I agree that no one religion should be viewed as superior to another; the one thing that I do strongly disagree with are the people who use their religion as an excuse to do unspeakable tasks, all in the name of their "savior". This includes members of my own religion as well, so don't think I am pointing a finger at others in the sense that Judaism is excluded. Any religious extremist is inherintly misguided in my opinion.
That same thing gives me the opposite feeling, on the days when I think that nothing of our conscious beings survive beyond this life. Believing that your life and death is part of the cycle of life that all living things are part of... if you believe there is no heaven or hell, no judgment, no big soap opera that you are an actor in, everything is so much more simple and enjoyable. You live your life in the best way you can, learn, love, play, work, laugh, cry, enjoy being alive - and when it's over, it's over. Your body goes back into the earth that produced you and life for everything else goes on; life is created, lives and dies in it's turn, just like you.
That, to me, is more beautiful than belief in some moody, vindictive god (created by men) who likes to play games with the lives of 'his' followers.
Do I agree with what? That these things are written in the Talmud? Since I couldn't believe that this was in fact in there, I did the research on the Talmud, and did, in fact, find these passages to exist. So yes, I believe that these passages exist in there. Do I agree with the authors opinions or interpretations and application of them? Nope. In the post that I made, that your post referrences, I was referring to being called an anti-semite. Do you know me, to know if I am one or not? NO. So don't begin to take the holier-than-thou position that I am one by asking me loaded questions. For your information, and the rest of the ignorants that want to paint me in a light other than what I am, I am married to a Jew!
What pissed me off most about this "article" was the fact that the liberal fucking media, once again, has the power to paint whatever pictures they want, and not have any duty or public responsibility to show the other side of the coin, if it doesn't further their own cause. Has anything like this ever been made public, to your knowledge? NO! That was my point. Nothing more, nothing less. Read into whatever you want to, but the fact remains, by your own admission, that I didn't have any personal commentary on the subject.
You assume that's the impression it gives. Everything that everyone posts on here automatically conveys their concurrence with it? That's silly. Look for another whipping boy, or poster child of white guilt, because you're not going to use me.
There it is. You *did* have a personal commentary. And your personal commentary makes sense, and writing it allows your point to be made. Because I didn't get the point you were trying to make from your original post, and apparently no one else did either.
I think that when you forward or distribute something that ugly and inflammatory, it is important to include a comment and try to make clear what you are trying to get across. Had you posted what I have quoted above along with the original post, this thread could have gotten to sensible discussion much sooner.
PhilB
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"If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other." -- Carl Schurz, (1829-1906) German born U.S. Senator and Union Army general during the US Civil War
"A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsw81
First of all, just to clarify, I never called the OP an antisemite. I called the author of the text an antisemite. Why someone would post something like this without stating their personal opinion on the matter before everyone else started to react to it is beyond me. Frankly, I'm relieved that you don't necessarily agree with the author. Out of curiousity, how religious is this Jewish wife of yours? I can't speak for her, but I know most Jews would be pretty offended by hearing/reading any of this.
On that note, I will clarify my perspective on religion. I was raised a Jew. I personally am agnostic since I am a biologist and physician by training, thus making it hard for me to believe in something I can't prove. What I do believe in is the morals, ethics, and family values that Judaism instills in their children. I think most people lose sight of what religion was intended to do for society. It was not intended to pose one group against another. I feel that it was implemented to create moral fiber in a society where morality had been lost. I agree that no one religion should be viewed as superior to another; the one thing that I do strongly disagree with are the people who use their religion as an excuse to do unspeakable tasks, all in the name of their "savior". This includes members of my own religion as well, so don't think I am pointing a finger at others in the sense that Judaism is excluded. Any religious extremist is inherintly misguided in my opinion.
I posted without my commentary because I wanted to get OTHER people's gut reactions to the "document". I know my own position, so I didn't need to see it again. Please, do not ever speak of my wife again. That is crossing the line with me and your implications regarding her faith are iring to me at the least. She is not to be spoken of by you or anyone else on the boards. I did bring her up to solidify my position as not being an anti-semite, and for no other purpose. You and alot of Jews are on some type of crusade to call anyone who disagrees with your thinking and laws an anti-semite, knowing that most people will back down immediately for fear of being socially chastised after being branded with such a label, true, or not.
Because someone offers up a different opinion and supports it with facts, doesn't make them an anti-semite, but an educated person. Do Christians go around claiming Jews are anti-catholic, and if so, the stigma attached to it would be laughable. How about Rabbi Gedalya Liebermann, who wrote "It follows then that those individuals who "decided" that Judaism is a nationality are to be ignored and even criticized."He must be an anti-semite, huh? How about the the Grand Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum? Is he an anti-semite also, for publicly stating that the Zionists were physically and spiritually responsible for the Holocaust? Get a grip. Stand up, be a man and quit hiding behind the "shield" of anti-semitism! You and your people shall all be better off for it. It is a cowardly move at best, and one that needs to be eliminated from people's vocabularies, unless it is really true.
Most Jews would be offended hearing/reading this? You are kidding about this, right? Most jews are either orthodox or Hasidic! They are the ones that strictly adhere to the teachings of the Talmud! It is the jew that follows reform judaism that doesn't abide by it's laws! They make up approximately 5% of the global jewish population. So, MOST jews wouldn't be offended by it! One can not just decide to "modernize" ancient traditions or regulations. The spiritual leaders of contemporary Judaism better known as Orthodox rabbis have received ordination to judge and interpret matters pertaining to the Jewish faith. These rabbis have received their rights and responsibilities and form a link in the unbroken chain of the Jewish tradition dating all the way back to Moses who received the Torah from Almighty God Himself. Is this not true?
You are right that most people lose sight about what religion is intended to do for society! It's only purpose is to control people! Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, you read that correctly, CONTROL! What easier way to control people than to control their thoughts and actions with something that has no tangible qualities and that is so vague as to not be able to be quantified, all the while demanding, "blind" and unmavering diliigence and adherence to it's laws? Anyone that believes it's for some greater good, is a foolhardy daydreamer at best!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdrushto
I was ready to see carnage... blood, bone, and ligaments, but not guy ass.
YOU HAVE JUST BEEN HIT BY THE HATE TRAIN
Last edited by guardianofvalhalla : 08-07-2007 at 07:48 AM.
That same thing gives me the opposite feeling, on the days when I think that nothing of our conscious beings survive beyond this life. Believing that your life and death is part of the cycle of life that all living things are part of... if you believe there is no heaven or hell, no judgment, no big soap opera that you are an actor in, everything is so much more simple and enjoyable. You live your life in the best way you can, learn, love, play, work, laugh, cry, enjoy being alive - and when it's over, it's over. Your body goes back into the earth that produced you and life for everything else goes on; life is created, lives and dies in it's turn, just like you.
That, to me, is more beautiful than belief in some moody, vindictive god (created by men) who likes to play games with the lives of 'his' followers.
I disagree. I hate the idea of knowing that at any moment should my wife be taken from me by a drunk driver or some murderer or rapist then it's all over and there's no hope that I'll ever see her again. In the end the killer will die without final judgement and my wife will be nothing but fertilizer and fading memories. It would make me feel much better if I knew that someday we'd be together again in another place.
You have just climbed directly to the top of the hottest woman in the galaxy award! 
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