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Politics & ReligionWell Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.
I can't believe I forgot to DVR the debate. I'll have to download it to my ipod and listen to it tomorrow at work.
From what I read and from a small clip that I've seen, they are really dicking Ron Paul around. But that's to be expected from Faux News. How the hell do people actually believe anything these people say or do? All you have to do is watch any of their reporters or just read their ticker for less than a minute and you can see how stuck up their own ass they are. They are the worst kind of conniving, radical, holier-than-thou, fascist, liars. Luckily, I think more and more people are starting to see that and are starting to ignore them. I don't think they'll be successful in hurting Ron Paul's campaign though. It's like a movement... and you can't stop a movement!
well I don't think the Clinton News Network is any better to be honest. In fact it's hard to find a single source of news anymore that isn't just a mouthpiece for some party.
Fox is obviously in the pocket of the right. Virtually all the others favor the left.
Now if news channels just got back to reporting the FACTS, just imagine how much better off we'd all be
Why Hasn’t Rudy Giuliani Read the 9-11 Commission Report?
May 16, 2007
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
ARLINGTON, VA – During the "First in the South" GOP debate in South Carolina last night, one thing was made clear: Rudy Giuliani does not understand how to keep America safe.
When Congressman Ron Paul, who has long served on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, explained how 50 years of American interventionism in the Middle East has helped compromise our national security, Giuliani interrupted saying he had "never heard anything so absurd." This statement is particularly troubling coming from the former mayor who tries to cast himself as a security expert, since Dr. Paul's point comes directly from the bi-partisan 9-11 Commission Report.
"Rudy Giuliani has tip-toed around the issues of abortion, guns and marriage. The only issue he has left is security, and he doesn't even get that right," said campaign chairman Kent Snyder. "It is clear from his interruption that former Mayor Giuliani has not read the 9-11 Commission Report and has no clue on how to keep America safe."
well I don't think the Clinton News Network is any better to be honest. In fact it's hard to find a single source of news anymore that isn't just a mouthpiece for some party.
Fox is obviously in the pocket of the right. Virtually all the others favor the left.
Now if news channels just got back to reporting the FACTS, just imagine how much better off we'd all be
As if the "news channels" have EVER been trustworthy to report just the facts. Go look at old newspapers from the '20's, the Civil War, the Depression, any other time you want to pick.
It's *never* been safe to trust the media. Take it in, get multiple sources when possible, think for yourself.
PhilB
__________________
"If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other." -- Carl Schurz, (1829-1906) German born U.S. Senator and Union Army general during the US Civil War
"A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
From what I read and from a small clip that I've seen, they are really dicking Ron Paul around. But that's to be expected from Faux News.
Because he equated the Persian Gulf War as the trigger for 9/11. Seriously, I don't think even Loose Change tried to create that parallel. The suit doesn't fit the body; he's an old, whiny sounding Libertarian with an "R" at the end of his name, who does he plan on fooling?
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Luckily, I think more and more people are starting to see that and are starting to ignore them. I don't think they'll be successful in hurting Ron Paul's campaign though. It's like a movement... and you can't stop a movement!
Actually, they're viewership is larger than CNN and MSNBC. Stop spewing unsubstantiated claims.
Because he equated the Persian Gulf War as the trigger for 9/11. Seriously, I don't think even Loose Change tried to create that parallel. The suit doesn't fit the body; he's an old, whiny sounding Libertarian with an "R" at the end of his name, who does he plan on fooling?
He's not trying to fool anyone. He's saying what he really thinks, just like he always has, and just like all those power-hungry poll-driven politicians sharing the stage never do. You can take or leave what he thinks, agree or disagree, but you can count on it being honest. That alone puts him head-and-shoulders above the rest.
And he sincerely believes in, and has a clear record of always voting on the basis of, the Constitution as actually written. That puts him head-and-shoulders-and-waist-and-knees above the rest. And that's good enough for me.
Obviously, mikem317, you don't have any interest in his position, and that's fine. Stump for continuation of the corrupt status quo and destruction of the Constitution if you like. It's a free country. Sort of. For a little while longer. No thanks to George, Dick, Rudy, John, Mitt, Hillary, John, Barack, John, etc.
PhilB
__________________
"If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other." -- Carl Schurz, (1829-1906) German born U.S. Senator and Union Army general during the US Civil War
"A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
He's not trying to fool anyone. He's saying what he really thinks, just like he always has, and just like all those power-hungry poll-driven politicians sharing the stage never do. You can take or leave what he thinks, agree or disagree, but you can count on it being honest. That alone puts him head-and-shoulders above the rest.
So why is he a Republican? And more precisely, a contemporary Republican?
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And he sincerely believes in, and has a clear record of always voting on the basis of, the Constitution as actually written. That puts him head-and-shoulders-and-waist-and-knees above the rest. And that's good enough for me.
Obviously, mikem317, you don't have any interest in his position, and that's fine. Stump for continuation of the corrupt status quo and destruction of the Constitution if you like. It's a free country. Sort of. For a little while longer. No thanks to George, Dick, Rudy, John, Mitt, Hillary, John, Barack, John, etc.
PhilB
Actually I have vested interest in everyone's position. We're electing an electoral college here to elect the president, right?
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Originally Posted by mikem317
Because he equated the Persian Gulf War as the trigger for 9/11.
The trigger is America's post WWII foreign policy. Skip the sugar coated version of history. The Persian Gulf War wasn't the trigger but the final straw in shit going back 50 years. America has propped up friendly puppets, crushing democracy or at least populist rule, in 3rd world countries the world over. Don't get me wrong. We're better than China or Russia and I believe we're actually pretty civilized for an Empire. You can't reduce the events of 9/11 to Islamic-fascism, they're evil and hate our freedom bit. It is not entirely our fault. But to say America is completely blameless in stirring up all these crazy religious nuts is denial. Paul is saying if we hadn't been screwing with people for so long, all the shit wouldn't be rolling down now. (blowback)
Our nation has hard power and soft power. The neo-cons are strong advocates of flexing America's hard power. (military)
I think our ideas and values are more influential in the world. We were so loved before Bush invaded Iraq. No matter how much you do for people, they bitch. That's why we shouldn't go around "spreading democracy".
Paul would take the gloves off. Pakistan is completely stone walling our effort to find Bin Laden. We could probably still pull out a "win" in Iraq but we'd have to scare them into submission and dump a trillion into a Marshal Plan that we can't afford. Carpet bomb the Al-Madhi Army's section of Baghdad and watch how fast they fall in line. The problem is we're too good natured to kill 20,000 innocents to make a point. That's why these elective wars fail.
I don't think Afghanistan was elective. When the CIA sponsored Taliban harbored Bin Laden, we had to go take them down but we left before the job was done. I think if we bail from Iraq, things won't turn out as bad as predicted. Yeah a representative federalist system is out of the question, we're already too far passed any point of hope. The politicians in power like Bush will never admit they made a fatal mistake. They completely miscalculated. If we pull out from Iraq and concentrate on actually securing this country, we'll be alright.
Germany and Japan welcomed American intervention because their entire country and population were devastated. As messed up as Baghdad is, it's still there. Although anyone with brains or money has already left Iraq.
I like Dr. Paul because he doesn't buy into the globalist agenda. Zbigniew Brzezinski pointed out 30 years ago official govt's are no longer in the driver's seat. It's the banking and multi-national conglomerates along with wealthy NGOs i.e. Bilderberg Group and the City of London. What Prof Quigley would call the Anglo-American Establishment. The big decisions are never gone over in public or discussed in open govt. The media/corporate establishment presents a series of distractions and false choices. How else can we explain the failure to protect the southern border when an overwhelming majority of the population want the govt to crack down on illegal immigration ? Better yet, why isn't there more disincentives to employ illegal aliens ? They're reducing the value of labor. And the dilution of individual choice and freedom.
The federal reserve and world bank, IMF etc... are all very sketchy. We appoint a private corp to invent fiat money and charge the govt and taxpayer's interest. NAFTA, the N. American Union and the other upcoming trade agreements are completely illegal and unconstitutional if you believe in what the founders intended at the start of this country. Congressmen have admitted stipulations in these agreements cede American sovereignty. We need the prohibition of corporate personhood. It's our last hope before we're all wearing collars under the NWO.
I also liked Mike Gravel having the balls to say the military-industrial complex has undue influence in govt and politics. I believe half our taxes go to corporate hand outs and kick backs to 3rd world despots. I believe this so called war on terror, will go down like the war on drugs. We need a new bad guy to justify the machine.
Dr. Werner Von Braun, one of the greatest scientific minds of the last century and the key to the beginning of America's space program, had an amazing insight. In the 1970s he predicted after winning the cold war against communism, the new designated "enemy" will become terrorists and rogue nations. And after that, a Gulf of Tonkin incident with extraterrestrials. What happens when a technologically advanced civilization encounters a primitive ? Just look at what happened to the Indians. At least I think that's what they fear, along with the loss of power.
So why is he a Republican? And more precisely, a contemporary Republican?
Actually I have vested interest in everyone's position. We're electing an electoral college here to elect the president, right?
He's a Republican because (a) the two big parties have it pretty well sewn up so that you've got to be one or the other to even get on the ballot in most places, much less have a chance of winning, and (b) the Republican Party talks about less government and lower taxes and pretends to care about them, which means that many actual grassroots Republicans hold those values, which means that someone who *actually* holds those values might have a good in with Republican voters (at least those who have been paying enough attention to know how badly they're being lied to by the Party).
No, at this point we're not "electing an electoral college here to elect the president". We're many months before even the primaries, where we get to offer weak advice (that they will mostly ignore) to the puppetmasters as to which puppets we want the electoral college puppets to clap for later. This year, we're still warming up with the Punch and Judy show, where they hit each other with slapsticks until someone cries "uncle".
PhilB
__________________
"If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other." -- Carl Schurz, (1829-1906) German born U.S. Senator and Union Army general during the US Civil War
"A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
Because he equated the Persian Gulf War as the trigger for 9/11.
nope.....he regurgitated findings of the 911 commission report. if rudy had read it, he might have replied differently.
to take the word of a former mayor over the word of a congressman who has served on the foreign relations committee is absurd....ron paul has been in the thick of american intervention on the arabian peninsula longer than rudy has been a public servant....and the sheeple think rudy is the better guy the ignorance in this country is astounding.
It's is really funny, the people here saying that he blamed the Gulf War for 9/11. Stop believing exactly what the news tell you to believe. He said that it played a part, as well as many other things. Actually listen to what Paul said, and read the 9/11 commission report. You will see that he is not making shit up and talking from his ass. Furthermore, he is correct.
The only thing that happened is Rudy proved what an idiot he really is. Unfortunately, the idiots that vote with emotions rather than brains will love him for it.
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He's a Republican because (a) the two big parties have it pretty well sewn up so that you've got to be one or the other to even get on the ballot in most places, much less have a chance of winning, and (b) the Republican Party talks about less government and lower taxes and pretends to care about them, which means that many actual grassroots Republicans hold those values, which means that someone who *actually* holds those values might have a good in with Republican voters (at least those who have been paying enough attention to know how badly they're being lied to by the Party).
I remember both Rudy and Mitt discussing this. Paul did, but to a much larger extent. And then sounded like a whiner and not a problem solver, IMO.
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No, at this point we're not "electing an electoral college here to elect the president". We're many months before even the primaries, where we get to offer weak advice (that they will mostly ignore) to the puppetmasters as to which puppets we want the electoral college puppets to clap for later. This year, we're still warming up with the Punch and Judy show, where they hit each other with slapsticks until someone cries "uncle".
It's is really funny, the people here saying that he blamed the Gulf War for 9/11. Stop believing exactly what the news tell you to believe. He said that it played a part, as well as many other things. Actually listen to what Paul said, and read the 9/11 commission report. You will see that he is not making shit up and talking from his ass. Furthermore, he is correct.
The only thing that happened is Rudy proved what an idiot he really is. Unfortunately, the idiots that vote with emotions rather than brains will love him for it.
If anything, I think he demonstrated the fact that he is a political hybrid.
the ignorance in this country is astounding.
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