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Politics & Religion Well Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.

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Old 05-16-2007, 09:06 AM   #16 (permalink)
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no it doesn't. However, the things we do believe are believed based on actual evidence and from that, a logical deduction is made.

What you are describing is basically a logical fallacy called Argument from Ignorance.

"Clownish" falls into the realm of Ad Hom attack with no basis whatsoever. In fact those people are using reason, logic, and evidence to come to a conclusion.
What are you using?
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Old 05-16-2007, 09:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Reasoning logic and "evidence" don't mean all that much when you are trying to discredit a possibility. All I know is my own personal experiences in exercising these principals, and once I (EDIT: help to) attract extraterrestrials to the planet (EDIT: That everyone can openly witness for themselves) you will have your proof of the power of (EDIT: collective) thought/intent and how it attracts what you focus on.

Puff puff on that bowl one time son.8r7865-079=0[97

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Old 05-16-2007, 10:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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You do not discredit a possibility. You lend credit to a hypothesis. Then it becomes a theory, from which logical, repeatable, and provable conclusions are made.
This is how logic works. Notice the stunning dissimilarity to the way you go about things.

Personal experiences are known as Anecdotal Evidence and among such lines of 'evidence' lie David Koresh claiming to be Jesus brought back to earth, the Salem Witch Trials, and of course the logical fallacy of Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc.

Anecdotal evidence is of course the same level of evidence used by anyone that's ever heard voices in their heads. Hey, they experienced it so it must be true.
Very compelling.............


ET huh? And just how do you plan on helping catch the attention of what would have to be super intelligent beings (compared to us) across light years of distance?
Once again since the radio signals traveling at the speed of light haven't elicited a response from Zoltan of Ursa Minor thus far, I'd be tickled to hear how you plan on it.

Scientology? Because you sound dangerously close to someone that read Dianetics when they should have been reading a physics textbook.

Quote:
you will have your proof of the power of (EDIT: collective) thought/intent and how it attracts what you focus on
Dude you can't even begin to explain how that is even supposed to work. If you don't know that critical bit of information, how do you know you are 'doing it' right?
This has got to be the worst bit of mish mash, new age nonsense I've encountered in many years. At least most nnutjobs think they have teir particular goofy notions figured out.

Not only that, but again it's a logical fallacy. If you hope for ET to visit, then one does- that does not mean YOU had anything to do with it. Considering ALL the other possibilities (like say almost a hundred years of radio communication waves propagading out from the earth to nearby star systems) it's far more likely that someone with the logic and reason to do something effective had a hand in it.

What you are saying is essentially prayer works. Prayer in this case being some new age version of energy/thought transference. But it's all the same and again, a logical fallacy known as Wishful Thinking.

Studies have shown time and again prayer (of any sort) simply doesn't work. You could be doing something useful like getting educated about physics so that we can travel to the stars ourselves, or working at SETI, with real scientists really doing something to find ET.

Or you could put on a tin foil beanie and think that the nothing you're doing is responsible for something happening when really it's the people with some education that are accomplishing things.

You could sit and think really hard about a pound of hamburger defrosting. But the fact that after a few minutes in the microwave the meat is thawed doesn't mean you did it. It's the result of people grounded in the real world that understand physics that made the microave oven that really got that meat thawed....
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:35 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Cobra
Just like extraterrestrials.
I was wondering when ET would enter the conversation.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:43 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Cobra
There are no victims in life; the things that happen to people are a result of their conscious/unconscious thoughts which attracted their positive/negative circumstances to them. Ever seen that movie called "The Secret"? You create your own reality through your thoughts and emotions.
I am trying to understand your rationale and to be honest I don't see it. Does this apply to all aspects? If so, then your theory says that children who are sexually assaulted are in fact causing it to happen or creating it with their thoughts and emotions. Bullshit.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:44 AM   #21 (permalink)
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well ET is all fine and well. I don't doubt life is out there.

But it isn't going to be found by putting on a tin foil beanie and humming. It will be discovered by smart people, that know those little things like electromagnetic wave spectrum analysis and a little thing we call physics.

People can be a part of the effort, or sit around thinking their silly notions have any effect on the real world.

I've heard some really funny nonsense before, but to claim it, and not even be able to define it......that is a new low for stupidity.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:50 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I thought you were going to leave and not come back KC. Honor your word.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:53 AM   #23 (permalink)
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oh let him stay. this is entertaining if nothing else
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:57 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1quick1
Maybe this will make your rethink your beliefs.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp
I thought it was this. I read the Wikipedia article. Needless to say, you become nauseous after reading crimes like this.
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:00 AM   #25 (permalink)
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oh don't ruin the fun with going back to the actual topic.....
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:03 AM   #26 (permalink)
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it's not everyday you find honest to goodness, dyed in the wool nutjobs.....

it's a rare glimpse inside the mind of the woowoo believer. I've begun a count on logical fallacies and I'm hoping to set a new record.
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:34 AM   #27 (permalink)
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oh don't ruin the fun with going back to the actual topic.....
I tried...
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:44 PM   #28 (permalink)
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dammit, you scared off the nutcase. I find them fascinating.

They come in two flavors- those that believe in that crap because they are simply too ignorant to know better.
And those that truly believe that kind of nonsense in their hearts.

The first is a bit tiring, but not behind saving from a lifetime of idiocy. The latter are fun to poke with a stick and see what kind of drivel they will come up with next.

In both cases a healthy dose of logic and reason work better than Deep Woods Off on mosquitos. I always say that the CS in CS gas grenade stands for Common Sense. And you see what happens to most people hit with the stuff.
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:31 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Back on topic -- the logical fallacy you assume in putting this forth is that people who oppose the death penalty in any way approve of such actions, or have some opposition to making sure such people don't do that again. You are trying to use a gut reaction against one thing to promote a different thing that does not necessarily have the connection you say it does.

It is entirely possible to oppose crimes like this, and strongly believe that such people should never be given the opportunity to walk the streets again, and yet still think that the government shouldn't be killing people. Even for such a crime as this, what if you executed them all, and then found out one of them wasn't actually involved? If you had locked them up forever instead, at least then that guy could have the rest of his life back.

And don't come back with the money argument. A typical death penalty trial costs more than life imprisonment, and that's not necessarily bad. It's worth a lot of money and effort to avoid executing innocent people. And it's better not to do so in the first place. The justice system is *far* from infallible enough to support using death as a punishment.

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Old 05-16-2007, 04:13 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I disagree Phil. I don't think there are that many innocent people put to death. I think that is a number trumpeted without much support to back it. It's a pseudoscience like so many others used to gain a political point. The truth be damned.

The simple fact is death isn't much of a deterrent except to THAT person. However, neither is the coddling we give prisoners now.

Both systems need totally revamped. Complete overhauls. The free cable tv, magazines, education, and air conditioned cells AMAZINGLY haven't stopped offenders from walking right back out to cause mayhem again. It's a failure.

The death penalty comes with an automatic appeal, thus making the entire expensive first trial pointless. Then comes the decade or more of appeals and other time wasting tactics for people who are, despite claims to the contrary are overwhelmingly guilty of what they are accused of.

If crime was actually PUNISHED in this country, perhaps this conversation would be moot. But the system is broken from top to bottom. It is often a better life behind bars than criminals had on the street. Hell I DON"T GET FREE CABLE TV. I pay for my medical and if I want a law degree, I'll be in debt till my retirement to pay for it.

I'm not saying the system for capital punishment is a good one. But tossing out the baby with the bath water isn't the answer. Fix it. Or fix it so committing capital crimes is punished so badly it stops and we don't NEED the death penalty anymore.

Until then, dropping the switch on the likes of Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy and their ilk is just fine with me.
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