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Politics & Religion Well Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.

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Old 01-03-2007, 11:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim schmidt
The atrocities he committed (and was killed for) were done before the 90s. Who he was was no secret when we were supporting him.
Ok thanks i was either 8 or younger during that time period. Either way i assume we benefited from helping him correct. and by benefiting it helped us the U.S out in some form or fashion. Would that be safe to say?
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Old 01-03-2007, 01:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hyabusa
Ok thanks i was either 8 or younger during that time period. Either way i assume we benefited from helping him correct. and by benefiting it helped us the U.S out in some form or fashion. Would that be safe to say?
How so? He fought Iran to a stalemate. Essentially a border war.
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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OIL.
Iraq demanded that the food for oil program be done in euros instead of dollars. teh UN agreed. iran suggested to OPEC that international oil trade be done in Euros also. north Korea also, soon after that. a few weeks later, the "axis of evil" speech.

what did we want to kill saddam for, again?
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:02 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Its simply an attempt to elevate the status of the invasion of Iraq. There is no valid comparison.
---I always find it humorous when people with no reasonable counterpoint try to dodge real points made by others.

We are speaking of the relativism of dealing with bad guys. No matter what time frame or what country- the issue is the lesser evil of dealing with bad guys to achieve a greater good- and the occasional backlash that you run the risk of.

So to try to dismiss it is simply an attempt to dodge a point for which you have no reasonable answer.

We sided with Stalin AFTER he had murdered more people than Hitler ever would. Sent weapons on Lend-Lease and much of our involvement in the Pacific helped to offset the japanese threat to the russian east so they could counter west into europe.

So ask yourself whether we were morally right in supporting a murdering madman from a country that would later force a cold war and the constant threat of nuclear war....but we supported him against Nazi's.

Should we have not fought the Nazi's?

At the time the Iranians had already been leading the world in terror activities and had taken US citizens hostage for 444 days. Saddam was a thug even then, but he wasn't taking US citizens hostage and bombing airliners. So we supported Saddam so we could fight the iranians indirectly rather than invading them- which was a very real possibility in the early 80's.

Saddam used chemical weapons and was immediately denounced by the world and dumped by the US. Shortly thereafter a french bought missile slammed into a US warship. Sorry to shatter the lefty illusion that we were all cozy with saddam. Damn those nagging facts....

But moral relativism is not black and white and neither the lefty kool aid drinkers or the righty bible thumpers are in any position to force their narrow moral view on history. Hindsight is 20/20 and utterly useless.

We used nazi scientists to create not only a space program (based DIRECTLY on V2 terror bomb designs) but also a nuclear arsenal.

I don't know what kind of car you drive but you do know that Henry Ford was a raging anti-semite that wrote a book called The International Jew? Didn't know that?

It's a pain in the ass ploy to try to apply moral relativism to history just to make some bullshit political point. The first thing any bible thumper will tell you is don't judge the current church for the Crusades.

Mistakes can be made, but rarely are the made maliciously. I think clinton was a total boob and I personally buried many friends because of his wag the dog wars. But I don't think he did it to HURT the country, he was just a complete moron, trailer park piece of shit. But I don't have some conspiracy theory he was out to damage the US, his incompetance just made it happen. Bush certainly falls into this catagory too.

Also remember that our favorite country- Israel - was born by jewish terrorists, then aided by europe and the US to herd the local palestinian population into squalid camps that grew into squalid towns over 50 years. Exactly like the herding of American Indians onto 'reservations'.

BTW, bet you don't mind so much all that land the white man used to turn the US into a world power- just had to kick the natives off the land to get it.


We all reap the benefits of atrocities and the suffering of others.
To try to look down your nose at the decisions of history, while living a life only available because of those decisions, is just hypocritical as hell.
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Last edited by TheSollyLama : 01-07-2007 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:22 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 51dude
I was watchin a video about saddam and it said that the U.S. SUPPORTED his corrupt ass up until about 1990. Then he somehow started fucking with the oil over there and next thing you know we`re at war with his country.. this is why I have no trust in our government and political b.s.!!
I stopped reading after your post and all I can add is keep reading and I am not talking about the intermanet

It's a long road and the early 90's is really just the start, in regard to Iraq.
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Old 01-07-2007, 05:07 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSollyLama
We all reap the benefits of atrocities and the suffering of others.
To try to look down your nose at the decisions of history, while living a life only available because of those decisions, is just hypocritical as hell.
And for this we are to approve of atrocities and perpetuate them?

What would you have me do, in your world, to avoid being "hypocritical as hell" while disapproving of such atrocities and wishing to learn from "the decisions of history" so that they not be repeated?

I wonder if you have ever used the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition as examples of how religion can be used as a tool of corruption.
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Old 01-07-2007, 09:04 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSollyLama
History is never so black and white as you'd like to think.
Then why are all the pictures of it that way?
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Then why are all the pictures of it that way?

Hes right. History is black and white. We have pictures to prove it!
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Another reason we went to war with Iraq is because he invaded a little country called Kuwait. Violating the Monroe Doctrine.
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by psudy
Another reason we went to war with Iraq is because he invaded a little country called Kuwait. Violating the Monroe Doctrine.
The FIRST Gulf war was because of this.

The second one, WE INVADED, preemptively by Shrub's own admission. What were we preemptively striking against?
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige
The FIRST Gulf war was because of this.

The second one, WE INVADED, preemptively by Shrub's own admission. What were we preemptively striking against?
High oil prices.
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:18 PM   #27 (permalink)
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evil doers
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:03 PM   #28 (permalink)
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High oil prices.
Hey and it worked!

Not really, but I'd gladly pay 5 bucks a gallon if 3000+ KIA and 40K+ wounded would not have happened.
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:24 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige
The FIRST Gulf war was because of this.

The second one, WE INVADED, preemptively by Shrub's own admission. What were we preemptively striking against?
Presumably because of the reported evidence to suggest that there were weapons programs and to facilitate regime change. The latter point obviously being the most prevelant considering the actuality of said weapon programs.
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:36 PM   #30 (permalink)
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