Study Finds Rich-Poor Income Gap Growing. What a surprise.

[hybrid]

Keith........I agree that superintendants shouldnt make a hundo or better when teachers make shit.

But your barking up the wrong tree about the pay. teachers make dick for money and I wouldnt go deal with those little assholes for that money either.

You arent bringing in better qualified people by making it a job no one wants.

Rugby..........youre out of your fucking mind that rich is in the eye of the beholder.

Sure you spend more when you make more. Financing a lifestyle isnt cheap. But for you to tell me that a man making a 150K a year is in the same fucking boat as a man making 20K a year, thats just ridiculous.

Never in my life have I equated debt to income ratio as a deteriming factor of rich versus poor.

Id much rather be the guy worrying about how Im going to make my beemer payment than the guy trying to figure out how to feed my kids.

[BusaDave]

Originally Posted by Truck

Funny, goes for your post as well.

Perhaps he can speak for himself!

I do pretty well myself. Am I rich? As you suppose that would depend on the context of the question, but by most reasonable measures I'm pretty well off. I'm not one you will typically see here bitching and moaning about paying taxes either.

There was a presentation recently on TV regarding the widening gap in salaries and perks of CEOs of corporations versus the people who produce the product the corporation sells. Unfortunately I don't recall the exact numbers but in the last 20 years CEO compensation has grown well beyond a value that can be explained by inflation and totally disproportionate to corporate performance.

Here's a couple of quotes:

Last week, Disney reported that the company had paid its former chief executive officer about $10 million (£5.65 million)in salary and bonuses for his final year. The bonus part of that was up 26 per cent — despite another lacklustre year for Disney.

Better still, they said, the ex-boss would go on receiving compensation this year, even after he has stepped down as CEO, of about the same amount, and then get a further post-termination bonus of about $7.5 million a year for two years beyond that.

I will grant you that this is probably a contractual obligation. However, it seems fairly obvious that this didn't account for poor performance in any meaningful way.

The pay of US chief executives has been a source of intermittent political controversy for a decade or more. The explosion of CEO pay has been startling in the past 15 years. In 1990 the average large US company paid its CEO about 100 times what its average worker earned. In 2004, that multiple had risen to 431.

These particular quotes were from a British paper but are similar in nature to what was reported recently by 60 Minutes.

Do you suppose that somewhere between my pretty generous salary that I pretty actively have worked toward with education, skill, and experience over 30+ years and a figure 431X my salary, lies the definition of rich?

In 1990 this same CEO would have on average made 100X what the "average" worker for that company made. Would you agree that somewhere between 100X and 431X the workers compensation we might find the growing gap we are attempting to discuss?

Your viewpoint that laziness explains this seems a bit jaded and without any apparent depth, but please don't let that stop you.

[Truck]

Jim, dodged my question, what facts did you present this thread? You're doing the same thing I'm doing.

Dave, I'm not disagreeing with you. I had a fairly liberal soci & poli philosophy professor, believe me, I know all about the gap. Something isn't right, but I don't know if raising the minimum wage or increasing government handouts is the answer. So much for Voodoo economics eh? The thing that makes me sick is what university president's take home every year in their benefits package.

Mr. Ross ranked first in total compensation among the nation’s private university presidents for the 2003-4 academic year with a package worth $5,042,315, according to the latest annual survey of executive compensation by The Chronicle of Higher Education.

Overall, the survey said, nine presidents of private universities earned more than $900,000 each, compared with none the year before, and 50 presidents of private universities earned at least $500,000 each, a 19 percent increase over the previous year.

From http://www-tech.mit.edu/V125/N56/56nytsalaries.html.

That was the example that came to mind, as it pertained to both education and the wage gap. These presidents make an incredible amount of money, while faculty can make anywhere from 8\hr janitors to 150-200k a year instructors. Being realistic, there is no reason for a president of a school to take home 5 million annually while they have people making less then adequate living wage working for them.

http://www.neweconomynorthbay.org/news_room.php

Do I think unions are the answer? No, they seem to only benefit union reps. I'll have to see what else I can dig up with more time, as I'm in the middle of course work.

[Keith_J]

Originally Posted by hybrid

Keith........I agree that superintendants shouldnt make a hundo or better when teachers make shit.

But your barking up the wrong tree about the pay. teachers make dick for money and I wouldnt go deal with those little assholes for that money either.

You arent bringing in better qualified people by making it a job no one wants.

Rugby..........youre out of your fucking mind that rich is in the eye of the beholder.

Sure you spend more when you make more. Financing a lifestyle isnt cheap. But for you to tell me that a man making a 150K a year is in the same fucking boat as a man making 20K a year, thats just ridiculous.

Never in my life have I equated debt to income ratio as a deteriming factor of rich versus poor.

Id much rather be the guy worrying about how Im going to make my beemer payment than the guy trying to figure out how to feed my kids.

Well, three of my three brothers ARE teachers. None are "hurting" like you assume. Neither are any of their associates "hurting". They don't make "dick" for pay either...

Look at the FACTS. Most school districts spend over 40% on ADMINISTRATION. Typical executive salaries run 8-10% of the bottom line of a corporation...yes, some make OBSCENE salaries BUT corporations have grown to billion dollar enterprises. Bad analogy.

The problem is the administration and the lacking feedback from forced education. Give the students (and more importantly, the PARENTS) the CHOICE and the failing schools will soon go the way of the dodo bird. GFR, they were failing because of piss poor administration.

Now the teachers that CAN teach WILL teach and those that don't make muster will start asking "do you want fries with that?" instead of teaching why it is good that Heather has two mommies.

[BusaDave]

Originally Posted by Truck

Something isn't right, but I don't know if raising the minimum wage or increasing government handouts is the answer.

I guess I missed where either of those was discussed as the cause or the solution to to the widening economic gaps being discussed, though I'd have a hard time being convinced that the minimum wage, as some measure of mininum living standard in trade for your life, sustains any meaningful burden on the majority. Many service-related industries don't even qualify for minimum wage and rather are primarily tip income, if not solely...and I am generally a very generous tipper.

Government "handout" discussions almost always escalate to tons of inaccurate assumptions about those receiving such "handouts", often do not reflect more recent reforms of the welfare system, and receive far more attention in signifcance to the proportion of money allocated to that.

I don't want to get too far off base discussing these spitting-in-the-ocean topics when the key issues are the values that lead to and justify such disparities, and many of those who will never see the plus side of those discrepancies defend the values.

[BusaDave]

Originally Posted by Keith_J

Well, three of my three brothers ARE teachers. None are "hurting" like you assume. Neither are any of their associates "hurting". They don't make "dick" for pay either...

I have to agree that most teachers I know with 10+ years are not exactly "hurting", but they are very often disparaged and under-appreciated.

The schools both here and back home are very good facilities offering more diverse, technical, and challenging curricula than when I was in school, and by my assessment MOST students are better educated and diversified than when I was in school also.

The "failing" of the public education system is something worthy of concern but highly overblown. Schools should be held accountable! It is not "competition" that provides accountability. It is INVOLVEMENT! Until parents of the students hold their children accountable for their responsibility in the learning process and involve themselves in the schools and school board elections, assistance in the teaching process at home, teaching discipline, etc. everything else is just wasting air.

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by Truck

Jim, dodged my question, what facts did you present this thread? You're doing the same thing I'm doing.

Difference is, if you widened your field of vision beyond the loading dock at Costco, you might get a better picture of the situation. "I know from Costco" as an economic theory is silly.

Well, that, and that I'm right. Poor people work very hard for their little paychecks. Laziness has no more to do with thier lot in life than it does yours. And no more than it does for people in my economic strata and those above us both. They're not called the "Leisure Class" for nothing.

You make a basic (to put it gently) salary. Don't you work hard for it? But unless you're going to a community college, I'd bet you're not paying for your education. $17K doesn't provide living expenses and tuition. Even if you don't have a family to support.

I long ago tired of trying to bring education to everyone here at SBN. I'm just not that interested in whether or not you get it. But everything you need to know is available from the same seat you're currently using.

[Truck]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

Well, that, and that I'm right. Poor people work very hard for their little paychecks. Laziness has no more to do with thier lot in life than it does yours. And no more than it does for people in my economic strata and those above us both. They're not called the "Leisure Class" for nothing.

Yawn, I guess you're right, so you preach economics on a sportbikes website right? I think this is where we will disagree on this. I'm sure some poor people work hard for their checks, however some poor people don't work hard at all, and that's why they are in the situation they're in. Argue it all you want, fact is there is no evidence to support your claim, as there is none to support mine. It's going to be personal experience with people in the real world and up bringing that have formed our views on this situation. I get my experience from myself, school, and quite a bit from family as some close family members have started from nothing and currently make very respectable livings due to busting their ass. Try and discredit me all you'd like, I'll sleep fine tonight as I'm sure you will as well.

[jim schmidt]

Your lack of interest in education is remarkable. All you need to know can be learned in an evening of Googling. I get the impression you really don't want to know.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...er+demographic

[Truck]

You're as dense as they come Jim. I never stated you couldn't find statistics on low wage workers, I simply implied there is no way to classify people's work ethnic's based on their class and back it up with factual evidence. You've provided me demographics, great, but what's that tell me about the mindset and attitude of the 35 year old working the counter at McDonalds and taking 10 smoke brakes a day while coming into work plastered half the time? What about the person who grew up in a rough area of town, had no oppurtunities given to them, but continually bust their ass day in and day out for low wages? Not a thing. Do you not understand where I'm going with this? I have no desire to look at demographics all night, seeing as how that was never my intent in my original post. Show me an independent study (and unbiased as possible) for 10% of the bottom 1\5 of society, reporting solely on their work ethnic and desire to advance based on observation. I'll shut up then.

[jim schmidt]

You obviously didn't read the material. I'll leave it to others to determine who's dense.

[Truck]

I read as much of it as you did I bet, none of it pertained to the question I proposed. Send me a link, I'm uneducated and can't read good, must be due to the fact I've grown up in upper middle class and had everything given to me .

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by Truck

I read as much of it as you did I bet, none of it pertained to the question I proposed. Send me a link, I'm uneducated and can't read good, must be due to the fact I've grown up in upper middle class and had everything given to me .

None of it? Do you always require this sort of spoonfeeding? If so, you may just want to settle in at Costco. You may just end up being one of those people you've spent today describing. That would be a bitter irony, eh?