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Politics & ReligionWell Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.
Back to the subject: The Democratic Party is the party of regular middle class people. The Republican Party represents bitter and selfish people.
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Democrats are for the hard working man!
Republicans are for the big business.
Might as well further the thread hijacking here...and I'll lay down a disclaimer here as I consider myself a libertarian, so I get the fun of commenting on both.
Let's focus on Republicans first..."[they] are for big business." Is this a bad thing? If I might ask, what do you do for a living Mike? Are you self-employed, or do you work for somebody else? Doesn't really matter as you will ALWAYS (unless you live in a yurt in the Urals) being dealing in some way, shape, or form with big business. You may type on a computer consisting of parts from Intel, you've been posting on a site which potentially uses something from Oracle, you drive a car made by a major automaker or you ride a bike manufactured by a major motorcycle manufacturer, which is in turn made with parts from other large businesses, and so on. So what is "supporting big business" consist of? Tax breaks, job incentives, re-patriation laws for profits made on foreign soil...the list goes on. How are these hurting you, the supposed "working stiff"? If you're a small employer, tax breaks for big corporations hurt you because you're not big enough to take advantage of them, or don't qualify because your sales or personnel numbers don't crease the qualification line. I know, my family has been there. But it essence, I'd rather see the government start to remove things like graduated income taxes, gross import taxes, etc., which hurt the means of trade. My hope is that once enacted stuff like this will trickle down to small businesses. So if Congress gives a tax break to corporations, more power to them. Does it help the working stiff? Sure does. You may not be a proponent of "trickle down" economics, but the math works. By allowing business to focus on the generation of profits, you will in turn generally grow, employ more people, etc. Will you outsource? Possibly. Sometimes it makes sense, and other times it doesn't. Outsourcing stinks if you're losing your job, but every time you shop at Wal-Mart you support it. Most people who decry outsourcing are the same people buying the majority of the outsourced products...go figure.
What do Republicans need to get off of? Faith-based initiatives are one. I realize that country was founded on Christian principles, but there is a point where religion and politics need to take a breather...abortion being the major issue.
That's just a crack in the nut for Republicans; respond and I'll do so in turn.
Now, onto Democrats..."[they] are for the hard working man!" This is a down-right hilarious comment. First off, what's your definition of a "hard-working" man? Manual labor? 40-hour weeks maybe? Traditional blue-collar job? I've got news for you; I know a lot of executives and professionals, myself included, who put in longer days than most. We sacrifice our personal lives, family lives, etc., to a company or our own businesses. And we do it gladly. Why? Many of us actually like to work, and frankly, most of us like to make $$$. Who doesn't? So please lay off the old adage of Republicans being white-collar prissies who sit in an office all day long and do little of real value. People are and should be employed and paid for their WORTH...and to be honest, it's the economy which sets the value on that worth.
So what are Democrats looking to support that helps the everyday joe? More social programs, homosexual unions/marriage and the associated benefits, universal healthcare, graduated tax structures, better environmental standards...feel free to add here. Do social programs work? Yes, they do...but only if they are used as intended. Welfare was/is supposed to be for temporary relief; it is not meant to be a lifestyle. So while I believe in its existence, it requires some serious re-structuring. Homosexual unions/marriage...I'm up in the air on this one. Personally, I don't care what you do in your own home. But when you start to add in things like associated benefits and the like, I see that being a potential economic detriment. For instance, the increased benefits cost in hospitalization has the potential to be a real hard-hitter. Next, universal healthcare? Sorry, but like anything else healthcare is a priveledge and NOT a right. Life, liberty, & personal property...those are rights guaranteed to you. But nothing in the Constitution says it's Uncle Sam's job/responsibility to take care of you. Libertarian principle is one of personal responsibility. You usually find that social responsibility comes as a result of the practice of this (read: Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith). Graduated tax structures? Me, I say hit everyone with a flat tax. It thus taxes everyone at an EQUITABLE level: 25% of my wealth, and 25% of yours. Why should someone who has been successful be summarily penalized for being so? Environmental standards require one to weigh the pros and cons. You have to realize that the more stringent you make these, without proper economic incentives, the more likely companies will be to move off-shore. So it's give and take. You can have them, but you have to be willing to work with businesses for gradual implementation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_Z
Let's focus on Republicans first..."[they] are for big business." Is this a bad thing? If I might ask, what do you do for a living Mike? Are you self-employed, or do you work for somebody else? Doesn't really matter as you will ALWAYS (unless you live in a yurt in the Urals) being dealing in some way, shape, or form with big business. You may type on a computer consisting of parts from Intel, you've been posting on a site which potentially uses something from Oracle, you drive a car made by a major automaker or you ride a bike manufactured by a major motorcycle manufacturer, which is in turn made with parts from other large businesses, and so on. So what is "supporting big business" consist of? Tax breaks, job incentives, re-patriation laws for profits made on foreign soil...the list goes on. How are these hurting you, the supposed "working stiff"? If you're a small employer, tax breaks for big corporations hurt you because you're not big enough to take advantage of them, or don't qualify because your sales or personnel numbers don't crease the qualification line. I know, my family has been there. But it essence, I'd rather see the government start to remove things like graduated income taxes, gross import taxes, etc., which hurt the means of trade. My hope is that once enacted stuff like this will trickle down to small businesses. So if Congress gives a tax break to corporations, more power to them. Does it help the working stiff? Sure does. You may not be a proponent of "trickle down" economics, but the math works. By allowing business to focus on the generation of profits, you will in turn generally grow, employ more people, etc. Will you outsource? Possibly. Sometimes it makes sense, and other times it doesn't. Outsourcing stinks if you're losing your job, but every time you shop at Wal-Mart you support it. Most people who decry outsourcing are the same people buying the majority of the outsourced products...go figure.
Answer, Yes it is a bad thing. When corporations use this influence to squeeze every last drop of profit out, at the expense of the American economy. For instance, the mass exodus of jobs out of the US. The creation of a new, poorer class of American, at the burden of the taxpayer, hence the Maryland law against WalMart. The new bankruptcy laws that were made for the credit card companies. Who did it hit the worst? Small business.
Trickle down has never produced any benefits. The proponents of it have never produced a strong economy. If you are going to point to Reagan, I will point to his second term. This is where his influence would be felt, as opposed to the outgoing president's. In this case, trickle down failed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_Z
What do Republicans need to get off of? Faith-based initiatives are one. I realize that country was founded on Christian principles, but there is a point where religion and politics need to take a breather...abortion being the major issue.
That's just a crack in the nut for Republicans; respond and I'll do so in turn.
They will be intertwined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_Z
Now, onto Democrats..."[they] are for the hard working man!" This is a down-right hilarious comment. First off, what's your definition of a "hard-working" man? Manual labor? 40-hour weeks maybe? Traditional blue-collar job? I've got news for you; I know a lot of executives and professionals, myself included, who put in longer days than most. We sacrifice our personal lives, family lives, etc., to a company or our own businesses. And we do it gladly. Why? Many of us actually like to work, and frankly, most of us like to make $$$. Who doesn't? So please lay off the old adage of Republicans being white-collar prissies who sit in an office all day long and do little of real value. People are and should be employed and paid for their WORTH...and to be honest, it's the economy which sets the value on that worth.
I am also an executive and I find it a little mendacious that you would compare a white collar job to a blue collar job. I work long hours, but I've worked blue collar through college and I don't think my job is anywhere near that stress level. Work at UPS as a loader for one shift and then complain about how hard the job is.
Not to mention that there HAVE to be blue collar workers in any economy. Belittling their value to a healthy economy is not conducive to economic strength. A strong economy is strong on all fronts and levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_Z
So what are Democrats looking to support that helps the everyday joe? More social programs, homosexual unions/marriage and the associated benefits, universal healthcare, graduated tax structures, better environmental standards...feel free to add here. Do social programs work? Yes, they do...but only if they are used as intended. Welfare was/is supposed to be for temporary relief; it is not meant to be a lifestyle. So while I believe in its existence, it requires some serious re-structuring. Homosexual unions/marriage...I'm up in the air on this one. Personally, I don't care what you do in your own home. But when you start to add in things like associated benefits and the like, I see that being a potential economic detriment. For instance, the increased benefits cost in hospitalization has the potential to be a real hard-hitter. Next, universal healthcare? Sorry, but like anything else healthcare is a priveledge and NOT a right. Life, liberty, & personal property...those are rights guaranteed to you. But nothing in the Constitution says it's Uncle Sam's job/responsibility to take care of you. Libertarian principle is one of personal responsibility. You usually find that social responsibility comes as a result of the practice of this (read: Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith). Graduated tax structures? Me, I say hit everyone with a flat tax. It thus taxes everyone at an EQUITABLE level: 25% of my wealth, and 25% of yours. Why should someone who has been successful be summarily penalized for being so? Environmental standards require one to weigh the pros and cons. You have to realize that the more stringent you make these, without proper economic incentives, the more likely companies will be to move off-shore. So it's give and take. You can have them, but you have to be willing to work with businesses for gradual implementation.
For all of the people who think welfare is "country clubbing" it, it's not. Most welfare recipients wouldn't choose welfare as a lifestyle.
If gays pay the same amount for benefits, they should enjoy equal footing. What increased healthcare costs are you speaking of?
You make more, you should pay more in taxes. Graduated taxes work fine. I think that a strong economy should work at all levels. My company's profitability is increased when there is more work to do. More spending, healthier lower and middle class consumers mean more profits for my company.
And yet they do....Evidenced by hundreds of thousands on welfare that are on their 5th generation of families in the program...
I thought changes to welfare several years ago placed limits on the time period. Do you have any proof of "hundreds of thousands" on their "5th generation" of families in the program?
Welfare was on the decline between 1993 and 2000 (ref: US DHHS)
__________________ There no need to ascribe to conspiracy that which can be attributed to indifference.
I thought changes to welfare several years ago placed limits on the time period. Do you have any proof of "hundreds of thousands" on their "5th generation" of families in the program?
Welfare was on the decline between 1993 and 2000 (ref: US DHHS)
That where I'm from dude. My mother is a teacher, says that 83% of the children are on lunch assistance programs, i.e welfare families. Most troubling is the fact that they keep popping out kids to increase that check. Then they spend it on themselves and the kid ends up selling/doing drugs to support him/herself. The best job they have, since they can't afford car insurance is the local market just to get free cigarettes.
