The Coal Miners

hybrid · 01-06-2006, 10:19 AM

Forgive me for not having all the pertinant details, I caught this when I was heading out the door.

Im watching Good Morning America today to see a reporter questioning one of the mine owners.

Comes about, the mining company is going to go ahead and put 2 million dollars in a fund, and set up fundraising from the public.

Then (oh how happy this made me) the reporter turns to the guy and say "Arent you a billionaire for all intents and purposes?" The guy nods in affirmation.......

Now tell me, how can anyone worth a billion dollars not feel responsible enough for his people, who died making him that money, to NOT pay the families for their loss!!??!!!!!

Id love to hear everyones opinion on this, Im sure I hear some more about how greed is justified in our current system.

ASCI_Blue · 01-06-2006, 11:39 AM

You're only saying that because you're jealous of his success.

That good enough for you hybrid?

BusaDave · 01-06-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hybrid

Now tell me, how can anyone worth a billion dollars not feel responsible enough for his people, who died making him that money, to NOT pay the families for their loss!!??!!!!!

Dude, don't even get me started!

There are likely all sorts of reason why he would not assume personal liability as opposed to whatever insurance and benefit plans that are in place. It is ironic though that he would focus on starting a fund for public donations. Any mention on whether and how much he (or the company) would contribute to the establishment of this fund?

The difficulty I have with most of these elite/working class discussions is that they are generally based in such a different set of ethical values that the comparison is totally lost in the discussion.

We see all the time even on this board (where I doubt there are any billionaires) people arguing from such diverse ethics that no sense of compromise is possible.

In all honesty, I would be more interested in whether the workers that expended the labor that created the wealth are compensated with salary and benefits commensurate with the priviledge associated with all the wealth built on their backs.

I am still shocked each time I review the annual report of my prior employer and witness the compensation package of the top officers when compared to the highly skilled engineers who create the products. In this specific case the salaries are not really out of line, but the perks are WAY off the scale, especially taken in the context of a company not yet making a profit!

hybrid · 01-06-2006, 01:08 PM

This is what I know about it.

He said the company would put forth 2 million dollars then they would set up a donation fund for the public to put up money. Then after that he would personaly think about putting money into the fund.

This guy owns 1/3rd of the company and is a self proclaimed billionaire.

I mean seriously, if you have a billion dollars, why couldnt you give every family 1 million dollars to cover all the money those men would make in a lifetime and some sort of extra cash as a gift for the families loss?

What the fuck is say 20 million dollars when you have a billion? I cant even fathom what a billion dollars looks like.

I was so happy to see that journalist just slap him with those kinds of questions. Then to see that self righteous prick stutter and stumble at the questions.

How dare that guy think the public should take care of the burden placed on him. How dare he think that he isnt responsible for the very lives that made that money for him.

Mr. Lesbian · 01-06-2006, 01:13 PM

Sad part, if HE gets sued, he'll spend well more in legal fees to fight it, then if he would just give the money to the families.

But having a billion dollars, he can manipulate the system to how he pleases.

hybrid · 01-06-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Lesbian

Sad part, if HE gets sued, he'll spend well more in legal fees to fight it, then if he would just give the money to the families.

But having a billion dollars, he can manipulate the system to how he pleases.

Personaly, I think the sad part is that crotchety old fuck stick doesnt think he should be responsible enough to take care of the families that lost a man to his fortune.

I find it sickening that he could honestly think that all of us should chip in to make sure that those families dont starve to death.

Im sure he paid them miners so well that the families will be okay with the trust fund the men had for them

Rascus · 01-06-2006, 01:44 PM

I think the avg salary for the miners was 55,000 a year, which in WV I'm sure is alot of money. Granted they said the mines were not up all year either.

Sad situation no matter how you look at it.

Nox · 01-06-2006, 03:32 PM

Plus its a Non-Union mine. And they can stick it to ya and get away with it the majority of the time. Take Massey(sp?) for example. I'm not sure how much you guys know about mines but they stick it to a lot of people. I won't go detail cuz it's just to much typing.

sexyicecold · 01-06-2006, 03:33 PM

It's absurd to request the public pay the families for the deaths of these men. There a many other avenues through which they can be justly compensated, one of them being this CEO.

Don't people usually set up public funds for when kids die of cancer and leave behind crazy medical bills? or when an impoverished person dies of a hit and run (or other random act of violence) and the family can't afford the burial expense?

What is the need for a public fund here? All these men died on the job and their employer should foot the bill for funeral expenses and remaining life-long wages. If the CEO won't do it himself, then there should be insurance policies and pension plan pay-outs to cover what was lost when these men died. If you get hit by a forklift truck at a factory, are injured and can't work, you will probably qualify for worker's compensation (at worst) or your employer's private disability insurance plan. In the instance of employees who die, and in this very dangerous industry, there must be some equivalent plan in place.

Nox · 01-06-2006, 03:46 PM

[quote=sexyicecold]It's absurd to request the public pay the families for the deaths of these men. There a many other avenues through which they can be justly compensated, one of them being this CEO.
QUOTE]

It's Non-Union. Rich people only want to get richer. They care little to none about anyone else. Especially when it comes out of their pocket.

sexyicecold · 01-06-2006, 03:50 PM

[quote=Nox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexyicecold

It's absurd to request the public pay the families for the deaths of these men. There a many other avenues through which they can be justly compensated, one of them being this CEO.
QUOTE]

It's Non-Union. Rich people only want to get richer. They care little to none about anyone else. Especially when it comes out of their pocket.

It doesn't matter if it's union or not. The public is not responsible for the safety and (in this case) death of these men. That is solely the responsibility of their employer. Unsafe working conditions = death = pay the survivors. Simple.

Nox · 01-06-2006, 03:59 PM

I'm not saying what their doing is right. By no means do I support it. But you don't live here. I'm simply stating that's how it goes more often than not.

hybrid · 01-06-2006, 04:00 PM

Must not be so simple sexy, Mr. Ross seems to think that he can have a wedding that costs more than he could pay these people.

Its the most vile thing I have ever heard of. A billionaire setting up public donation centers for the families.

Id smite that fucker myself if given the opportunity.

People truely make me sick these days............

BusaDave · 01-06-2006, 04:22 PM

One reason why unions and labor laws came about:

bigD1031 · 01-06-2006, 09:34 PM

Ok, I am gonna play the devils advocate. One thing that you must consider is that for inherentily dangerous work comes better pay. Most miners make quite a good living for the work they do, granted it is dangerous and that is what leads to higher wages, but they are good wages especially for people that never went to college. (I am not degrading them at all, just stated the fact that people that go to school typically demand a higher wage.) Another example is crab fishermen, they work 1 to 2 monthes out of the year, make $60,000 and up to and over $100,000 for the work they do in that little time and can take the rest of the year off. When they disappear is it expected that the owner pay to take care of the families? No!! It is an accepted danger that comes with the work. Why isn't everyone up in arms about the huge number of fishermen that die every year, or the fact that one of the most dangerous jobs now is that of a taxi cab driver. Where is your public out cry for them?

I guess my point is this, this is and will forever be a tragic event and of that there is no doubt. The miners leaving notes and rumors that the older men gave the youngest and sole survivor their oxygen in hopes that he would survive, he was 27 and had 2 kids, are fine examples of the caliber of these type of men. Insurance through the company and that the miners would have mostly bought for themselves should take care of the families first and foremost. If the families are found needing then ethically the company/owner should help take care of them. Him setting up the fund is the first step in that direction. Legally speaking though, he is not responsible unless he is found negligent in the safety of the mine. Then legally they can sue his ass off. 2 million is not a lot for him, no, but it is something and it is not a way for him to get the public to pay for this, the insurance is their to help pay for it, it is a way and place for people in the public to give money to the families, and that includes the company/family. (Anyone know if that was money from his pocket or from the company?). Is the 2 million enough, we will see, but it is not the owners sole responsibility to take care of the families. The workers were paid extra for working in a dangerous situation and they did it voluntarily and knowing the dagers it invovled. Is it fair, probably not. Is it fair what some CEO's make, probably not. But since when was the world fair? If it was the owners own money then good on him, he doesn't have to donate a cent if he doesn't want to. If it was the companies own money, then good on them to, as of now they don't legally have to do anything. (Ethically is a different story.) Before we start yelling and griping about "THE MAN" screwing everyon, lets see what "THE MAN" is gonna do.

Just my $.02