Stabilizer or Damper? - Page 2

Black Snowman · 06-26-2008, 10:36 AM

I've been reading some of the stuff on Sport Rider and some of it contradicts what I've read in TotW:II and what works in my very limited experiance. One piece of advice in "Riding Skills Series: A Little Overcooked" sounded down right dangerous. They actually recommended rolling OFF the throttle in a corner you entered faster than you inteded. That puts extra load on the front and increases the chances of you pushing wide. You want to keep rolling on throttle to keep your traction maximized and if anything breaks loose you want it to be the rear so that the front turns into the turn. I think rear wheel skids are much easier and less dramatic to recover from anyway.

So ya, multiple sources of info are good. Keep digging, you'll find your own truth out there eventually, and I'll repeat my advice on getting formal training before spending money on gadgets. The rider is the #1 factor in the handling of a bike, followed most likely by tires, then suspension. Although you might be able to reverse those last two since even basic rubber has improved so much in recent years.

Tyger · 06-26-2008, 07:20 PM

I agree on the formal training...I'd like to hit the cornerspeed or Kieth Code schools but I'm not sure if th emoney will allow it this season. With coming to fast into a corner though, at least for my bike, coming off the throttle allows me to lean the bike more at the right moment. Like I said: for my bike...granted I go into a corner with some "in case of emergency" planted in my head. I think everyone has their technique though...I know backing a touch off the throttle has saved me a couple of times. None of them were over 95mph though so speed may be a factor.

Ozy · 06-26-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyger

I agree on the formal training...I'd like to hit the cornerspeed or Kieth Code schools but I'm not sure if th emoney will allow it this season. With coming to fast into a corner though, at least for my bike, coming off the throttle allows me to lean the bike more at the right moment. Like I said: for my bike...granted I go into a corner with some "in case of emergency" planted in my head. I think everyone has their technique though...I know backing a touch off the throttle has saved me a couple of times. None of them were over 95mph though so speed may be a factor.

No offence but thats a scary proposal.

Backing off in the corner loads up the front suspension, puts greater stress on the front tire, and raises your chance of washing out the front wheel.

Not sure if you've ever gone down by loosing the front wheel, but its one of the most sudden, and hardest feeling accident as you seriously just go straight down.

gsx6ndl · 06-26-2008, 09:37 PM

ride height vs. wheel base also has a lot to do with the way bike handles so you might wanna try that to adjusting your ride height just a 1/2 inch can make alot of difference i think there an article on this sight somewhere about the geometrics of it but it makes perfect sense my racer buddies all agreed with it too

Dr.K · 06-26-2008, 10:11 PM

Aren't they the same shit?

Tyger · 06-29-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.K

Aren't they the same shit?

By Stabilizer I mean the GPR/Scotts style while by Damper I mean the HyperPro/Ohlins Style.

I was trying to copy some of the info from the Sport Riding Book about throttle control, weight transfer, and leaning the bike. but I'm at work and it's too much between my paid agenda. Basically it says the same thing I've been saying, closing the throttle (causing deceleration of the bike) creates the transfer of weight to the front wheel making the bike easier to lean. I don't mean closing it completely.

"opening the throttle transfers the weight off the front tire and onto the rear tire, extending the fork in the process, and encourages the bike to either hold it's present lean angle or straighten up, depending on how much throttle is used (or how much horsepower your bike makes)....think about it:the accelerating throttle and resultant extended fork make your bike hesitant to steer simply because your bikes front end geometry is at it's most stable and least flickable"
- Sport Riding Techniques "How to develop Real World Skills For Speed, Safety, And Confidence on The Street and Track

While this doesn't account for gravel or inconsistencies in the road surface I know when I need to really lean *my* bike over I can use throttle control to do so if I'm in a turn too hot. This isn't every time mind you but a case-by-case basis where the acceleration/deceleration and front end loading technique has worked for me.

Thinking about it more..I think that the expectation that they may have made with Overcooked skill series is that if you're coming into the corner too hot then you're probly opening the throttle gradually still or the acceleration has the rear wheel loaded up already. So backing off the throttle (slightly) would be beneficial and (as above) make the bike easier to turn.

Black Snowman · 07-02-2008, 07:01 PM

I picked up a copy of Sport Riding Techniques and read it. There's some things in there I can't agree with based on what I've learned about the technology and physics of riding I've learned from TotW:II and my personal experiences. Both the articles and the book say a lot about what successful riders do, but don't have the science to back up why you want to do what in a given situation like Keith Code does.

The techniques described in the book and articles are good for situations where you HAVE to slow down in a corner, for instance to keep from rear-ending someone, but if they way is clear, you want to avoid doing things that transfer your "traction points" from the rear to the front. You can get around the corner better using cornering traction that trading it for brake traction.

Read TotW:II. It's absolutely invaluable. I didn't really realize how good it was until I started reading more material. Up until recently it and Proficient Motorcycling have been pretty much my 2 main references.

I'll leave my other grips about Sport Riding Techniques for another thread.

Liquids · 07-02-2008, 07:11 PM

stabilizers and dampers are the same thing... the 2 styles are rotary-piston and linear-piston, but they are commonly referred to as rotary and piston dampers.

Tyger · 07-02-2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquids

stabilizers and dampers are the same thing... the 2 styles are rotary-piston and linear-piston, but they are commonly referred to as rotary and piston dampers.

Yeah, but I'm curious as to which people think is best and why...I just put that book on order so I'll get a chance to read it this coming week. Should be here in time to try the new techniques by next weekend =)

Omahastylin16 · 07-03-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyger

Yeah, but I'm curious as to which people think is best and why...I just put that book on order so I'll get a chance to read it this coming week. Should be here in time to try the new techniques by next weekend =)

im gonna say that in my personal experience the rotary ones are better, mostly because the guys that ive seen with the linear ones always seems like theirs die quickly and stop dampening

Liquids · 07-03-2008, 06:33 PM

The rotary ones are better, GPR or Scotts, but they're a lot more expensive. I have a linear damper that bolts to the steering head where the upper fairing stay bolts up to it. Stay away from the ones that require you to drill and tap or rivet your frame. I forget the make of mine but I got it off ebay for around $120 I believe. GPR/Scotts are like $450