If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Performance and CustomizingShare your tips and tricks on customizing your sportbike. From windscreens, footpegs, undertails, flushmounts, paint, exhausts, and tires.
I saw a picture of a bike here before that was painted with Flat Black. I wasn't sure if it had Clear coat on it or not, but it looked great. I was thinking of painting my plastics all flat black, with a layer of clear coat. i was told i need something in the clear coat to make it work on the flat paint.
The guy said i could mix "it" in with the paint, but if I am just doing a spray can job, I would have to buy special spray paint that had it in already. Has anybody experimented with clear coat over flat paint?
I have no clue where that pic went, i think it might have been an r6, or r1, was in the black bikes thread, but searching got me nothing.
I saw a picture of a bike here before that was painted with Flat Black. I wasn't sure if it had Clear coat on it or not, but it looked great. I was thinking of painting my plastics all flat black, with a layer of clear coat. i was told i need something in the clear coat to make it work on the flat paint.
The guy said i could mix "it" in with the paint, but if I am just doing a spray can job, I would have to buy special spray paint that had it in already. Has anybody experimented with clear coat over flat paint?
I have no clue where that pic went, i think it might have been an r6, or r1, was in the black bikes thread, but searching got me nothing.
I saw an R1 on Ebay that had the flat black portions clear coated...Looked awesome
Posts: 8,443
Casino Cash: $3344
Sportbike: too many to list
No such thing as clear over flat black...........clear is what brings the shine. All base coats are "flat"
There is an additive that you add to the clear to achieve a MATTE finish. You can mix in different amounts for different effects. Some go matte to "eggshell"
I wouldnt try to spray clear over spray paint. In all reality. A matte finish paintjob should be cheaper than a regular black paint job. Black is the hardest color to paint and when you take the gloss and smoothness out of it it is real easy to do
__________________
cause rascus said I had to.........
HELP ME FIX IT MOD.........PM me with any questions you have...actually PM RASCUS hahhaha
The friction which results from ignorance can be reduced only by the spread of knowledge- NIKOLA TESLA Want to learn how to work on your bike? Check the "HOW TO" subsection of HELP ME FIX IT.
No such thing as clear over flat black...........clear is what brings the shine. All base coats are "flat"
There is an additive that you add to the clear to achieve a MATTE finish. You can mix in different amounts for different effects. Some go matte to "eggshell"
I wouldnt try to spray clear over spray paint. In all reality. A matte finish paintjob should be cheaper than a regular black paint job. Black is the hardest color to paint and when you take the gloss and smoothness out of it it is real easy to do
Thanks for the info. "Matte" was the word i was looking for i think. But in this case, your saying i should just spray Flat Black alone, no clear, no additives?
But cant you buy ClearCoat in a spraycan? Instead of clear over gloss black, just do clear over flat black. would that just make it glossy? maybe i need to go to the paint store and see what they got.
I have a friend that can spray, and if i did spray the clear coat, it wouldn't be over spray can black, i would have him do the black as well.
go to an automotive paint supplier you can get auto grade flat black in an oil base formula about 14 bucks for a quart. did this on a 99 civic hatch for a guy tried clear with matte chem. mixed in gives a semi-flat appearance. can do for 60 bucks if you can get some to spray for free
go to an automotive paint supplier you can get auto grade flat black in an oil base formula about 14 bucks for a quart. did this on a 99 civic hatch for a guy tried clear with matte chem. mixed in gives a semi-flat appearance. can do for 60 bucks if you can get some to spray for free
I have NO idea what kind of 'oil base' formula you're going to get from a reputable automotive paint supplier.... however, even if they WILL sell you something oil-based.. DONT put it on your bike.
I THINK what 2wheels was trying to get at was a 'SingleStage' paint, which you can get a flattening agent added to for a matte look. HOWEVER... as I (and others) have posted MULTIPLE times on here before... Single-Stage IS NOT FUEL-SAFE. It's enamel. Just like spray paint. First time fuel touches it, it's going to melt instantly.
To achieve the flat-black look AND be fuel-safe, you MUST use a catalyzed clear over the top of the color (usually black... ). "Clearcoat" doesn't NECESSARILY mean glossy. It IS possible to spray a clear with a matte finish. PPG and Doupont sell deglossing agents that you can add to any catalyzed clear OR enamel to keep the surface from achieving gloss. HOWEVER... these deglossing agents are not UV-safe and will 'chalk' after a few seasons use. That means that the surface will become dry and powdery, to the point where you can draw marring marks with your finger on it.
IN MY OPINION... the easiest, cheapest, and fastest way to achieve the desired 'flat black' look is to use DBC-500 mixed 6:6:1 with proper speed reducer and DCX51 hardener. DBC500 is an intercoat clear. It's kind of like a 'clear-paint' instead of having all the super-duper stuff that 'regular' catalyzed clear has in it.. DBC500 is pretty much just the bare necessities (and costs about 1/5 what a high-quality clear does). The problem: PPG WILL NOT give you any specsheet showing that DCX51 works with DBC500. It DOES work, PPG knows it, and so do custom paint shops. DCX51 is the catalyst for the 'regular' clears. Typically, DBC500 just gets mixed with reducer, just like your basecoat colors; 1:1.
As the DBC doesn't have all of the flow agents and other goodies that 'high quality' clears have, it doesn't achieve a glossy surface very easy. For a bodyshop, that's bad, cause your sprayer has to work pretty hard to get that glossy look out of DBC500. For someone with a cheapo-gun, little experience and no money to do it over.. this is a selling point of DBC500. If you stand back and 'fog' the panel, it will come out super-flat. If you lay it on a bit thicker, it will be a bit more glossy, but not shiny.
Adding the DCX51 to the DBC500 causes the DBC500 to be fuel-safe and super-hard (like regular glossy clear) when it dries. It increases the drying time by about 1/2 hour, but still, your overall tack time is like 15mins, and your colorsand time is about 2 hours, depending on your film thickness.
Oh.. and all of you who want a 'flat black' bike and are using actual "Black-Black"... quit it. Go ask for "Lamp Black". It's a super-dark grey that looks better as a 'flat black' than if you just spray black with no gloss....
Here's a pic of a bike that was done in lamp black with DBC. This is NOT my paintjob... just a reference photo.
IN MY OPINION... the easiest, cheapest, and fastest way to achieve the desired 'flat black' look is to use DBC-500 mixed 6:6:1 ask for "Lamp Black". It's a super-dark grey that looks better as a 'flat black' than if you just spray black with no gloss....
Here's a pic of a bike that was done in lamp black with DBC. This is NOT my paintjob... just a reference photo.
Here's my rattle can flat black job... 2-3 coats Krylon semi flat black, 3-4 coats Krylon Matte clear... The paint held up well for 6 months before I had it resprayed pearl red. I had it in the rain, sun, washed it, and the only thing that hurt anything was gasoline splashes on the tank....
I have NO idea what kind of 'oil base' formula you're going to get from a reputable automotive paint supplier.... however, even if they WILL sell you something oil-based.. DONT put it on your bike.
I THINK what 2wheels was trying to get at was a 'SingleStage' paint, which you can get a flattening agent added to for a matte look. HOWEVER... as I (and others) have posted MULTIPLE times on here before... Single-Stage IS NOT FUEL-SAFE. It's enamel. Just like spray paint. First time fuel touches it, it's going to melt instantly.
To achieve the flat-black look AND be fuel-safe, you MUST use a catalyzed clear over the top of the color (usually black... ). "Clearcoat" doesn't NECESSARILY mean glossy. It IS possible to spray a clear with a matte finish. PPG and Doupont sell deglossing agents that you can add to any catalyzed clear OR enamel to keep the surface from achieving gloss. HOWEVER... these deglossing agents are not UV-safe and will 'chalk' after a few seasons use. That means that the surface will become dry and powdery, to the point where you can draw marring marks with your finger on it.
IN MY OPINION... the easiest, cheapest, and fastest way to achieve the desired 'flat black' look is to use DBC-500 mixed 6:6:1 with proper speed reducer and DCX51 hardener. DBC500 is an intercoat clear. It's kind of like a 'clear-paint' instead of having all the super-duper stuff that 'regular' catalyzed clear has in it.. DBC500 is pretty much just the bare necessities (and costs about 1/5 what a high-quality clear does). The problem: PPG WILL NOT give you any specsheet showing that DCX51 works with DBC500. It DOES work, PPG knows it, and so do custom paint shops. DCX51 is the catalyst for the 'regular' clears. Typically, DBC500 just gets mixed with reducer, just like your basecoat colors; 1:1.
As the DBC doesn't have all of the flow agents and other goodies that 'high quality' clears have, it doesn't achieve a glossy surface very easy. For a bodyshop, that's bad, cause your sprayer has to work pretty hard to get that glossy look out of DBC500. For someone with a cheapo-gun, little experience and no money to do it over.. this is a selling point of DBC500. If you stand back and 'fog' the panel, it will come out super-flat. If you lay it on a bit thicker, it will be a bit more glossy, but not shiny.
Adding the DCX51 to the DBC500 causes the DBC500 to be fuel-safe and super-hard (like regular glossy clear) when it dries. It increases the drying time by about 1/2 hour, but still, your overall tack time is like 15mins, and your colorsand time is about 2 hours, depending on your film thickness.
Oh.. and all of you who want a 'flat black' bike and are using actual "Black-Black"... quit it. Go ask for "Lamp Black". It's a super-dark grey that looks better as a 'flat black' than if you just spray black with no gloss....
Here's a pic of a bike that was done in lamp black with DBC. This is NOT my paintjob... just a reference photo.
Thanks for the info. "Matte" was the word i was looking for i think. But in this case, your saying i should just spray Flat Black alone, no clear, no additives?
But cant you buy ClearCoat in a spraycan? Instead of clear over gloss black, just do clear over flat black. would that just make it glossy? maybe i need to go to the paint store and see what they got.
I have a friend that can spray, and if i did spray the clear coat, it wouldn't be over spray can black, i would have him do the black as well.
Thanks Again
The clear in a spray can is enamel... it's not fuel-safe. Pretty much anything in a spray can, unless you had it custom-mixed, is going to be non-fuel-safe enamel. You need a catalyzed clear over the black.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper91180
urethane single stage is fuel safe
I retract my earlier statement until I get ahold of my paint supplier. The enamels that come in spray cans is not fuel-safe. To my knowledge, Single-Stage Enamel is the same stuff. If you are talking about Acrylic Urethane Single Stage.. yes.. it's fuel-safe. However, Acrylic Enamel, to my knowledge is not. I will contact my local supplier and find out today. Hopefully they dont try to pimp some out to me...
hehehe i know, i was just being a smart ass lol, i was talking about single stage urethane yet, not the rattle can goo, which none of it that ive come across is fuel safe, actually i dont have much use for rattle can stuff for anything!
Here's my rattle can flat black job... 2-3 coats Krylon semi flat black, 3-4 coats Krylon Matte clear... The paint held up well for 6 months before I had it resprayed pearl red. I had it in the rain, sun, washed it, and the only thing that hurt anything was gasoline splashes on the tank....
Thats what i was looking for. I think i have made up my mind to get it sprayed professionally this spring. I will be using a flat black with Matte clear over it. Correct me if that is the wrong terminology. I do have two or three spots on my tank from gas. The paint on it now is just Gloss Black, no primer, no clear coat. But its a helluva lot better than the purple paint that was on it before
Thanks for all the tips, great info here as always
Sponsored by Arnott Air Ride
Flat Black with Clear Coat???
Linear Mode
