16yr old u.s citizen taken away under Patriot Act by FBI!?

[prodigal27]

Originally Posted by Scratch33

Incorrect. The only information anyone has to go on is the news article.

And the reason for that is:
No lawyers permitted
Gag order

You do know what a gag order is right?

So who then is the mother supposed to go to in order to relay what happened? Do you expect her to come knock on your door to say something? A news agency is the best outlet. You seem to keep forgetting that the kid doesn't have rights, and the only other people directly involved besides the mother, are not allowed to speak on the issue.

[Scratch33]

Originally Posted by prodigal27

And the reason for that is:
No lawyers permitted
Gag order

You do know what a gag order is right?

While a gag order bars government officials from commenting publically concerning a pending case, that has no effect on the ability of the media to make inquiries and at least report on the results of their attempts to obtain information. And while the kid himself may be denied formal legal representation at this point in the process, that has no effect on interested legal persons (or groups) from taking up the matter to the authorities; or the media; or elected officials at the state or Federal level.

[Scratch33]

Originally Posted by prodigal27

A news agency is the best outlet.

Yeah, that's the point I'm attempting to make. And the news agency's not doing a very good job IMO.

[prodigal27]

Originally Posted by Scratch33

While a gag order bars government officials from commenting publically concerning a pending case, that has no effect on the ability of the media to make inquiries and at least report on the results of their attempts to obtain information. And while the kid himself may be denied formal legal representation at this point in the process, that has no effect on interested legal persons (or groups) from taking up the matter to the authorities; or the media; or elected officials at the state or Federal level.

Agreed, the problem is authorities are not permitted to speak on the matter. The media can inquire about the topic, but so far it looks like nobody is willing to relieve any information. Which in all honesty, is a bunch of horse shit. They already have a bi-partisan bill trying to pass, in order to water down the patriot act (honestly that isn't enough, but it's a start). H.R. 1800: National Security Letters Reform Act of 2009 (GovTrack.us)
I'm not sure if this bill is a result of the issue at hand, or unrelated.

[Scratch33]

Originally Posted by prodigal27

The media can inquire about the topic, but so far it looks like nobody is willing to relieve any information.

The media can; and I think we all agree the media should; but I don't see any evidence of the media having done so.

Just based on the news article, there's limited information concerning the mother's attempts to date to obtain information or her son's release -- all she talks about is the raid and the Patriot Act. Not "Well, I called/visited my congressman and Senator and this is what they have or haven't done"; "I've called the ACLU or Legal Aid and this is what they said.", etc.

It makes her look a lot more passive and/or helpless than I think a typical parent would be in such a case. That's kinda what give me the impression that there's something more to it.

[prodigal27]

Not sure on how accurate the info is, but this was from an article I read earlier.

"Ashton now sits in a juvenile facility in South Bend, Ind. His mother has had little access to him since his arrest. She has gone to her state representatives as well as attorneys, seeking assistance, but, she said, there is nothing she can do."
Mom says Patriot Act stripped son of due process :: WRAL.com

[Scratch33]

Originally Posted by prodigal27

Not sure on how accurate the info is, but this was from an article I read earlier.

"Ashton now sits in a juvenile facility in South Bend, Ind. His mother has had little access to him since his arrest. She has gone to her state representatives as well as attorneys, seeking assistance, but, she said, there is nothing she can do."
Mom says Patriot Act stripped son of due process :: WRAL.com

Ah yes - you're correct, thanks. I'd like to know more about those meetings. Was it because their hands are truly tied by the Patriot Act as the mother claims; or did they decline to get involved based on some knowledge that her son did indeed make bomb threats?

[Scratch33]

This might be an easy question for those here who know far more about computers than I do:

How long does usually take to investigate and verify whether an IP has been hacked? If, for instance, I found out that someone had hijacked my computer and/or account to send out emails or make phone calls, couldn't my internet provider or phone company trace that relatively quickly and easily? If not locate the perp, at least confirm that it wasn't actually me?

[dasnotty1]

Originally Posted by joe1971

Are you dumb?

^^^^^^THAT is one of the dumbest most asinine statements I've ever come across

The kid is innocent until definitive proof is found proving other wise.

Oh and learn to use spell check

are you dumb? were have you been since 2001. the goverment is taking a strong stand against any kind of threats.Especially a home grown one, maybe they're gonna make an example of this kid. The system is not perfect nothing is not even my spelling. And i'm not being graded here for my spelling so fuc spell check. Your probabaly one of those people that if the kid did blow something up would be blaming the goverment for not catching him before committing the act.

[Rod38um]

Great post.....
The patriot act allowed the monitoring of communications between suspected foreign enemies and anyone in our country. I don’t really have a problem with that. While I don’t want my government just stopping by and picking up kids for interrogation. I do want them to do the job discovering and assessing threats against our country. Obviously this kid or someone using his IP address was communicating with someone he shouldn’t have been and making threatening statements. So YES I want that checked out and if that means the kid has to be questioned and even held if the questioning reveals something...... I'll accept that.
Most people think this is a conservative oppression tool, in fact, the few liberals who have been against it, when informed, have changed their mind. Obama included.
Clinton Slams Obama for Voting “for” the PATRIOT Act at ABC-Facebook New Hampshire Debate | Threat Level

[kirkeb]

The point is the kid is being denied due process AS A CITIZEN in finding out if he's guilty or not.

The patriot act sux and is one more step on the road to complete control by the gov't of everything we do. Obama is controlled by the same masters as W.

Lastly if you think McVeigh did the OKC bombing, or more specificaly, the damage done by the diesel/fertilizer device, then do some research. No way that device did that damage to that building.

[MeinGlänzendMotorrad]

Originally Posted by Rod38um

Great post.....
The patriot act allowed the monitoring of communications between suspected foreign enemies and anyone in our country. I don’t really have a problem with that. While I don’t want my government just stopping by and picking up kids for interrogation. I do want them to do the job discovering and assessing threats against our country. Obviously this kid or someone using his IP address was communicating with someone he shouldn’t have been and making threatening statements. So YES I want that checked out and if that means the kid has to be questioned and even held if the questioning reveals something...... I'll accept that.
Most people think this is a conservative oppression tool, in fact, the few liberals who have been against it, when informed, have changed their mind. Obama included.
Clinton Slams Obama for Voting “for” the PATRIOT Act at ABC-Facebook New Hampshire Debate | Threat Level

We already know you're a fucked up bigot who's desperately in need of being put down, don't make yourself look any dumber.

[NattyDrez]

I wouldnt be surprised that that much fertilizer could do that. The truck was filled to the brim with it.

I wont go into anything but even a small amount of fertilizer, even just a few lbs, will have an explosion radius of anywhere from 20-50 feet. Its nothing to mess around with.

[Rod38um]

Originally Posted by MeinGlänzendMotorrad

We already know you're a fucked up bigot who's desperately in need of being put down, don't make yourself look any dumber.

Wow, total lack of debate here....... its always personal attacks when an invalid opinion cant be substantiated.

[FizzerMeTimbers]

Originally Posted by Rod38um

Great post.....
The patriot act allowed the monitoring of communications between suspected foreign enemies and anyone in our country. I don’t really have a problem with that. While I don’t want my government just stopping by and picking up kids for interrogation. I do want them to do the job discovering and assessing threats against our country. Obviously this kid or someone using his IP address was communicating with someone he shouldn’t have been and making threatening statements. So YES I want that checked out and if that means the kid has to be questioned and even held if the questioning reveals something...... I'll accept that.
Most people think this is a conservative oppression tool, in fact, the few liberals who have been against it, when informed, have changed their mind. Obama included.
Clinton Slams Obama for Voting “for” the PATRIOT Act at ABC-Facebook New Hampshire Debate | Threat Level

It's not a conservative oppression tool, its a government oppression tool. No one should be surprised Obama isn't doing much about it. It sounds like you don't mind any government action no matter how severe as long as it's in the name of fighting terrorism or "assessing threats against our country". How about if it was your computer that was hacked? Jail and no lawyer indefinitely sounds ok to you? There is a very good reason due process is such a big deal here.