16yr old u.s citizen taken away under Patriot Act by FBI!?

[Scratch33]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

So where the forfathers terrorists or freedom fighters?

Now that I've answered your question, let me ask you: do you consider Timothy McVeigh to have been a criminal or a "freedom fighter"?

[636blurr]

Originally Posted by Scratch33

I'm hard pressed to come up with examples of our forefathers blowing up day care centers.

Well hell you must hate the military for all the babies they blow up then huh?
get real, civilians die in any conflict like it or not.

If you want to dig farther we know the government tested nuclear weopons in this country ,and its easy to say that many of the cancer and thyroid problems are a result of that testing, we know that thousands of people became ill from gulf war syndrom, we know the government uses the military as test rats, we know there are plenty of town with police departments completely out of control. Again, if you want to go down that road then you better take a long hard look in the mirror.

come on scratch, your smarter than this.

[MeinGlänzendMotorrad]

Originally Posted by Scratch33

Now that I've answered your question, let me ask you: do you consider Timothy McVeigh to have been a criminal or a "freedom fighter"?

I don't believe Timothy McVeigh was responsible for the crimes he was found guilty of.

[Scratch33]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

Well hell you must hate the military for all the babies they blow up then huh?
get real, civilians die in any conflict like it or not.

If you want to dig farther we know the government tested nuclear weopons in this country ,and its easy to say that many of the cancer and thyroid problems are a result of that testing, we know that thousands of people became ill from gulf war syndrom, we know the government uses the military as test rats, we know there are plenty of town with police departments completely out of control. Again, if you want to go down that road then you better take a long hard look in the mirror.

come on scratch, your smarter than this.

Again, you're attempting to justify the actions of monsters by making comparisons. I however am not. *I* don't support military bombing of civilians; nor the Patriot Act; nor police abuses.

You however are supporting, not condemning, the actions of McVeigh by pointing out these things I don't support - and attempting to infer that by not supporting McVeigh, I must somehow support military bombing of civilians, or the Patriot Act, or police abuse.

You're smarter than this. Up until now I thought so, anyway.

[Scratch33]

Originally Posted by MeinGlänzendMotorrad

I don't believe Timothy McVeigh was responsible for the crimes he was found guilty of.

Despite the fact he did not deny carrying them out, rather he attempted to argue they were 'necessary'; and his co-conspirators testified against him.

M'kay.

[Scratch33]

Originally Posted by Scratch33

Now that I've answered your question, let me ask you: do you consider Timothy McVeigh to have been a criminal or a "freedom fighter"?

I'd still like an answer to this question, Blurr.

[636blurr]

Originally Posted by Scratch33

Again, you're attempting to justify the actions of monsters by making comparisons. I however am not. *I* don't support military bombing of civilians; nor the Patriot Act; nor police abuses.

You however are supporting, not condemning, the actions of McVeigh by pointing out things I don't support - and attempting to infer that by not supporting McVeigh, I must somehow support military bombing of civilians, or the Patriot Act, or police abuse.

You're smarter than this. Up until now I thought so, anyway.

Where did I say I was supporting mcviegh, nicholes and the third guy in that? They were wacked out fruitcakes.

I am merely stating that at some point society will have enough, will those people be terrorists? or not?

The sad thing about be it military, revolution or whatever, those people who will be doing the dying are those who have nothing to do with the things being implemented by fat cats who will merely stay in the back and always meld into whatever change happens. sometimes, they are held responsible, usually, maybe one or two, the rest are hidden and saved by other governments (cough us for example)

[Scratch33]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

Where did I say I was supporting mcviegh, nicholes and the third guy in that? They were wacked out fruitcakes.

I am merely stating that at some point society will have enough, will those people be terrorists? or not?

I'd hope you'd agree that McVeigh, Nichols and Fortier were indeed terrorists. You didn't 'merely' state anything. It's been like pulling teeth to get any criticism from you of their actions.

People who make no distinction between the 'government' they wish to change (or destroy) and innocents who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, are just as wrong, and just as much of a threat, as what they're fighting against.

[BuiltGypsy]

Originally Posted by Scratch33

I'm hard pressed to come up with examples of our forefathers blowing up day care centers.

The Americans outsourced for all their looting/plundering/raping needs during the American Revolution.

[yzfkid]

First...The kids ip adress or computer made numerous bomb threats.Whether he did it or not.Thats what there going to figure out.It takes time with all these school shootings and bombings there going to do what they have to do to stop them.If he actually is the one then justice was served and if not.He will be set free.Is everyone pissed just becasue he is 16 and looks innocent in his pink polo?.What if he was 40 and lived in his moms basement and didnt have a mother crying to the media about it. Would everyone be so riled up then.There just doing there investigation and if he is iccocent it will all sort itsself out..


Second...I laughed my ass off when the mother was talkign about the fbi not finding blasting caps and wires then sayign i dont even know how to make a bomb.How the fuck is some suburban housewife going to know what a blasting cap is?


Third..No 16 year olds room is covered in quilted american flags on a fully made bed in a perfectly clean room..You can kiss my ass on that one lady! Fuckin staged!

[BuiltGypsy]

Originally Posted by yzfkid

Second...I laughed my ass off when the mother was talkign about the fbi not finding blasting caps and wires then sayign i dont even know how to make a bomb.How the fuck is some suburban housewife going to know what a blasting cap is?

Suburban housewives learn everything they know about criminals from CSI.

[enos]

Originally Posted by yzfkid

First...The kids ip adress or computer made numerous bomb threats.Whether he did it or not.Thats what there going to figure out.It takes time with all these school shootings and bombings there going to do what they have to do to stop them.If he actually is the one then justice was served and if not.He will be set free.Is everyone pissed just becasue he is 16 and looks innocent in his pink polo?.What if he was 40 and lived in his moms basement and didnt have a mother crying to the media about it. Would everyone be so riled up then.There just doing there investigation and if he is iccocent it will all sort itsself out..

Yes, but why does this have to happen in secret under a gag order and claim to be crucial to national security? Nobody is saying we should stop arresting criminals. But criminals should be treated like criminals. That includes a due process.

That due process is to protect innocents. When someone is disappeared like this then all bets are off.

Originally Posted by yzfkid

Second...I laughed my ass off when the mother was talkign about the fbi not finding blasting caps and wires then sayign i dont even know how to make a bomb.How the fuck is some suburban housewife going to know what a blasting cap is?


Third..No 16 year olds room is covered in quilted american flags on a fully made bed in a perfectly clean room..You can kiss my ass on that one lady! Fuckin staged!

Maybe, but whether or not he's innocent or guilty is beside the point. The point is how we determine that and how they're punished if they are guilty. Doing this in the open was one of the proud parts of America. It's enshrined in the Constitution. Now it's been thrown in the dumpster.

[636blurr]

Originally Posted by Scratch33

I'd hope you'd agree that McVeigh, Nichols and Fortier were indeed terrorists. You didn't 'merely' state anything. It's been like pulling teeth to get any criticism from you of their actions.

People who make no distinction between the 'government' they wish to change (or destroy) and innocents who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, are just as wrong, and just as much of a threat, as what they're fighting against.

Thats kitkat blither and I expect more from you, innocents die all the time inadvertently, be it in war, medicine, hell just eating, dozens of ways.

boring give me more of a discussion scratch.

First...The kids ip adress or computer made numerous bomb threats.Whether he did it or not.Thats what there going to figure out.It takes time with all these school shootings and bombings there going to do what they have to do to stop them.If he actually is the one then justice was served and if not.He will be set free.Is everyone pissed just becasue he is 16 and looks innocent in his pink polo?.What if he was 40 and lived in his moms basement and didnt have a mother crying to the media about it. Would everyone be so riled up then.There just doing there investigation and if he is iccocent it will all sort itsself out..


Second...I laughed my ass off when the mother was talkign about the fbi not finding blasting caps and wires then sayign i dont even know how to make a bomb.How the fuck is some suburban housewife going to know what a blasting cap is?


Third..No 16 year olds room is covered in quilted american flags on a fully made bed in a perfectly clean room..You can kiss my ass on that one lady! Fuckin staged!

Didnt you wisper in one of those guys ears you fougth that you were gonna kill him? You should be investigated, held in custody for months until they get around to checking it all out.

You phony little shit. Man I get tired of all the self rightous bullshit on here.

[prodigal27]

Patriot Act is a bunch of shit. Way to waste money, and "detain" someone without having real proof. Might as well call it the "Shit on the Constitution Act".
I liked it when you needed evidence to arrest someone. Now all you have to do is cry terrorism.

[enos]

Originally Posted by prodigal27

Patriot Act is a bunch of shit. Way to waste money, and "detain" someone without having real proof. Might as well call it the "Shit on the Constitution Act".
I liked it when you needed evidence to arrest someone. Now all you have to do is cry terrorism.

Yep.

Heck, in some cases you don't even have to detain. They can just send a National Security Letter to a bank and they can do whatever they want with your finances. Each one has an automatic gag order, too, so the bank can't tell you what they're doing nor that they even got such a letter.
The letters are purely administrative, no warrant or judge's involvement necessary. Of course the FBI lied about how many such letters they sent.

There are lawsuits against some parts of the patriot act (i forget if they're by the ACLU or the EFF) but they're under a gag order too.

This is not how a free country is supposed to work.