Gun Nuts - is a gun show worth it?

[bzbatl]

Originally Posted by PhilB

I don't necessarily find that part so important either, although since I do have it in the lockbox I can safely do so, so I do. My point was not that you had to keep it chambered all the time, but that you should do so ASAP in an unknown situation and that delaying that in order to try to frighten an intruder with the sound of chambering it was taking an unnecessary risk for no good reason.

PhilB

Maybe I should clarify.

My entire house is hardwoods, it echos down the hallway when I fart in my closet.

Racking the gun from my bedroom will be heard from any point of entry on the bottom floor of my house. Unless, of course, the dog is still barking.

I'm not saying I'm going to load it when I'm 3 feet from the dude. The gun will be loaded while the intruder is still in another room.

[MeinGlänzendMotorrad]

I think there's currently one gun in the apartment that isn't loaded and ready to go. My Mosin. But that's because all the ammo I have for it is 3 decade old milsurp that needs to be scrubbed before every range trip.

[Teej]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

Very intersting article well stated on ballistics.

Having read both on success and failures of heavy birdshot stopping people I am not in total agreement but definatly a good article and makes complete sense.
Although I am a bit of a hypocrite since I do keep my shotguns loaded with 4buck myself.

Choosing Birdshot, Buckshot or Slugs for shotgun home defense. » ShadoWalker’s Musings, Realizations, and Rants

Yep. And that article backs up my whole position in this thread. Chiefly...

1 - 12ga better than a 20ga because you can download the 12ga and end up with less recoil for the same power/load.

2 - Use buckshot. Not birdshot.

beyond that, one's residence and legal climate may dictate acceptable tactics...but if the fit hits the shan and you need a gun, your best chance at staying alive and out of jail is to drop a perp where they stand, not try to just "hurt and scare him" (to quote someone's website link somewhere). If that means they die...well...it was their call to violate your residence and threaten your safety. Yes, I'd lose sleep over having someone die in my living room...I'm not a cold enough SOB to say otherwise...but not nearly as much as I'd lose if they hurt me or my family.

Just don't EVER shoot 'em in the back. :O

[636blurr]

I still have zero problem with a 20 guage.

But I agree you should always shoot to kill. you break into my house, threaten my well being, I will hunt you down and kill you. period.
If IM in a good mood I will use a gun, if Im not............sigh, you will wish I had used one, nuff said.

[Teej]

Agreed - there's nothing _wrong_ with a 20 for HD. No part of the job it can't do.

It's just that...especially if you would ever consider doing anything beyond HD with it...there's nothing you can do with a 20 that you can't do, and probably better and/or cheaper with a 12...unless there's some external requirement to use a 20.

[MeinGlänzendMotorrad]

Once they're on the run, 636, you can't shoot them.

[636blurr]

Thats true but I can drive over em.

[MrR2009]

Originally Posted by MeinGlänzendMotorrad

Once they're on the run, 636, you can't shoot them.

YOU CAN IN TEXAS!!!

Just look at Joe Horn. and they didn't even break into his house.

[MeinGlänzendMotorrad]

Yeah, but there's nothing but rednecks and assholes in Texas.

[MrR2009]

Whoa now, don't be mad because where the best.


I wont argue the redneck point. But if you think everyone in Texas is an asshole, you need to spend some time in Texas. Its a friendlier state than any other state I've been.

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by bzbatl

Maybe I should clarify.

My entire house is hardwoods, it echos down the hallway when I fart in my closet.

Racking the gun from my bedroom will be heard from any point of entry on the bottom floor of my house. Unless, of course, the dog is still barking.

I'm not saying I'm going to load it when I'm 3 feet from the dude. The gun will be loaded while the intruder is still in another room.

OK. Good. As long as you're not going to be entering a possible gunfirght with a club, I'm good.

Originally Posted by MeinGlänzendMotorrad

Once they're on the run, 636, you can't shoot them.

Well, you CAN, but you MAY not.

PhilB

[coolatula]

Originally Posted by Teej

Agreed - there's nothing _wrong_ with a 20 for HD. No part of the job it can't do.

It's just that...especially if you would ever consider doing anything beyond HD with it...there's nothing you can do with a 20 that you can't do, and probably better and/or cheaper with a 12...unless there's some external requirement to use a 20.

I'm not going to debate any point here,but I will say after buying a 870 Youth model 20ga. I "saw the light". Some may say a 12 ga can do everything a 20ga can and more which I don't disagree with but,I look at it the other way around.

I realized after buying my little youth model that IT could do EVERYTHING a 12ga could do at least for anything I would need it for. It was easier to handle,lighter to carry in the field,woods,would hit every clay pigeon or animal it was aimed at within it's range if I did my part.

Unless I was going to hunt wild Turkey,Duck or Geese(the last two I have no desire to eat anyway) where my shots may be at extended ranges and I NEEDED the addition powder charge a 3" or 3 1/2" 12ga magnum then I see no need for a 12ga shotgun for normal use or home protection.

To put it very bluntly a 12 ga home defense shotgun is OVERKILL. Killing an intruder with #4 buck at 20 feet with a 12ga will not make him less dead if he just happened to have been shot with a 20ga. with the same relative power load.

I have had both 20ga and 12ga long barreled pump and break-over shot guns and I really never gave either much thought as far as being that much different because frankly there wasn't much difference. What changed my personal view was when I actually purchased my physically smaller 870 Youth model in 20ga..
I paid around $15.00-20.00 MORE for my Express Youth(about $230-240 tl. at the time) and it only came with one choke tube(not three like normal for the 12ga.). It also was not offered in a "Combo package" like the 12ga. were. Did I like paying more? No,but that's the only way it was offered and that's the gun I wanted so I paid.
Remington Model 870™ Express®

Now to throw something else into the mix. I did a very bad thing one night when me and my friend were shooting some clays. You see I shot my friends Remington model 1100 20ga. auto and proceeded to shoot 9 clays in a row as easy as yawning during a minor league baseball game and I almost nailed a 10th clay in succession.

Jealousy being what it is,one of my buds just couldn't let perfection exist and made the last one a "wobbler" to put it nicely(wobble hell,it just went flying off the thrower and some crazy ass angle,speed and rotation that a Bat couldn't have zeroed in on if it was a juicy bug) and so I missed. Be that as it may I was very impressed buy the reduced felt recoil and relative easy way that gun took down those clays.

Easy as pie,or pissing off a porch as they say and it was.
No racking on doubles or the hit of the recoil on the first shot and then trying to track the second because the recoil was more more of a gentle shove than a hit. That spoiled me and although I still don't have one a Rem. 11-87,1100 or Beretta 20.ga auto will be my next shotgun when funds allow it. I have shot 12 ga. auto before and to be honest I found them heavy,unwieldy and not much fun to shoot,even such guns as the "Idol worshiped" Browning Auto 5.

[Teej]

Unless you weigh 50 pounds soaking wet and can't lift the 12ga to your shoulder, the extra weight of the 12ga is a good thing imho. Heavier gun = less recoil to shooter.

10 clays in a row? from what sort of launcher / situation? Just a little "me and my buddy" target launcher, trap range or....?

I'm no stallone by any means. I'm on the overweight side (although not exactly a lardass) and certainly not muscle bound by any stretch. I find it quite comfortable to shoot 50 rounds of 12ga whether out of an automatic or o/u or 870 pump. I've hit 30-35 straight on a trap range (target starts out 16 yards away from you and keeps getting further away...) with the o/u. I don't know the exact number because I hit all 25 on the second round and don't remember exactly how many I'd hit consecutively at the end of the first round (got 20 or 21 out of 25 on the first round...)

I now have an 1100. 12ga. Not too heavy by any stretch.

[KBacon]

I have shot 12 ga. auto before and to be honest I found them heavy,unwieldy and not much fun to shoot,even such guns as the "Idol worshiped" Browning Auto 5.

The A5 is a pogo barrel action.. IE the whole barrel moves back to cycle the action.. this is not exactly pleasant to shoot and has more recoil than alot of autos today.

Try a Beretta Xtrema2 or Benelli SBEII... and tell me how they kick compared to a 20ga.

[636blurr]

Shot a benneli M1? or three? get em confused the one that is pump and semi, fuck that thing was a breeze to shoot.