What did I see going down the road today?

[robert_s_hunter]

Originally Posted by Whymista

Lol says the guy who rides a hyosung

I've never compared it to an Agusta, have I? So, what's your point? Suddenly having delusions that your Kawasaki does? There's the really funny bit....

And, for the record, a Nissan or Toyota will always have to stand on it's history, and charging an egregious amount of money will never change that fact. Those of us old enough to have left our short pants behind us remember what Datsuns were.

[Whymista]

Originally Posted by robert_s_hunter

I've never compared it to an Agusta, have I? So, what's your point? Suddenly having delusions that your Kawasaki does? There's the really funny bit....

And, for the record, a Nissan or Toyota will always have to stand on it's history, and charging an egregious amount of money will never change that fact. Those of us old enough to have left our short pants behind us remember what Datsuns were.

Uh no you have an elitist idea that because its not euro or german engineered its not in the same class.

You sound like someone stuck in the past. So the fuck what it used to be a datsun. Uhh years ago hyundai wasn't what they are today. By your views you'll still be stupid enough to think they are still jap crap.

Oh and ever heard of comparisons, aka you diss the nissan because its not euro so I diss your crappy hyo because its not one of the big 4

FAIL

[robert_s_hunter]

Originally Posted by Whymista

Uh no you have an elitist idea that because its not euro or german engineered its not in the same class.

You sound like someone stuck in the past. So the fuck what it used to be a datsun. Uhh years ago hyundai wasn't what they are today. By your views you'll still be stupid enough to think they are still jap crap.

Oh and ever heard of comparisons, aka you diss the nissan because its not euro so I diss your crappy hyo because its not one of the big 4

FAIL

My, but we're easily offended, aren't we? Was it the "short pants" comment?

[ridinhome]

For all those people who sneer at Jap. super cars because they "used to be Datsuns" keep in mind that Lamborghini started out as a tractor company. Pretty damn good tractors but tractors nonetheless.

I'm not a brand whore. I'll take the Nissan GT-R.

[Whymista]

Originally Posted by ridinhome

For all those people who sneer at Jap. super cars because they "used to be Datsuns" keep in mind that Lamborghini started out as a tractor company. Pretty damn good tractors but tractors nonetheless.

I'm not a brand whore. I'll take the Nissan GT-R.

Shut up what do you know.

If its not euro it sucks duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh stuuuuuuuuuuuupppppiiiiiiiiiid

[robert_s_hunter]

Originally Posted by ridinhome

For all those people who sneer at Jap. super cars because they "used to be Datsuns" keep in mind that Lamborghini started out as a tractor company. Pretty damn good tractors but tractors nonetheless.

I'm not a brand whore. I'll take the Nissan GT-R.

I'm fully aware of Lamborghini's history. You'll also notice that Lamborghini understands something about brand integrity. Have you noticed that they haven't been building tractors for quite a while now?

It's about brand positioning. A person with half-a-brain's worth of business sense understands that there's a reason that, despite it being the same corporation, the Panda was sold with a Fiat badge while the F40 had a Ferrari one.

An F40 with a Fiat badge, or a Polo wearing a Porsche one, would be just as laughable. It's just that some poeple get sand in their shorts when someone points this out about the Japanese carmakers, without blowing smoke up their @ss at the same time to make them feel better. For the record, I also own a Japanese sportscar. It still doesn't change the facts....

[robert_s_hunter]

Originally Posted by Whymista

Shut up what do you know.

If its not euro it sucks duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh stuuuuuuuuuuuupppppiiiiiiiiiid

Congratulations, I guess you win the "Sand in Your Shorts" award....

[R1oldguy]

The Datsun 240Z was a sports car for those of you too young to remember.
Not everyone has the means, or wants to get an high$$$ (imho) European sports car.

[robert_s_hunter]

Originally Posted by R1oldguy

The Datsun 240Z was a sports car for those of you too young to remember.
Not everyone has the means, or wants to get an high$$$ (imho) European sports car.

Absolutely correct, and it was a very good car, particularly when you consider what the price was. The problem is that the GT-R no longer represents that kind of value-for-money that the Nissan marque has always represented in the market.

If anything, at the price-point, it would have been far better off being badged as an Infinity. The dealer network, and the level of service it's dealers provide, would be a much better combination. The last thing a customer bringing in this caliber of car should expect is to have to wait behind a Sentra for service, and to drive away in a Versa service loaner.

[ridinhome]

Originally Posted by robert_s_hunter

I'm fully aware of Lamborghini's history. You'll also notice that Lamborghini understands something about brand integrity. Have you noticed that they haven't been building tractors for quite a while now?

It's about brand positioning. A person with half-a-brain's worth of business sense understands that there's a reason that, despite it being the same corporation, the Panda was sold with a Fiat badge while the F40 had a Ferrari one.

An F40 with a Fiat badge, or a Polo wearing a Porsche one, would be just as laughable. It's just that some poeple get sand in their shorts when someone points this out about the Japanese carmakers, without blowing smoke up their @ss at the same time to make them feel better. For the record, I also own a Japanese sportscar. It still doesn't change the facts....

Actually, Lamborghini brand tractors are still made, its just that the tractor division was sold Lamborghini Tractors

So I think we're finally getting to the nub of the argument here. I agree the issue is one of brand positioning and market segmentation. First of all, a company's choice of whether to use separate brands (Fiat / Ferrari) or sub-brands / model designations (e.g. Armani / Emporio Armani) depends on a) the "stretchability" of the brand and market segment they are looking at. Clearly Nissan is not trying to target the middle to upper end of the luxury performance car segment. Instead, it seems to me they are targeting the upper end of the market segment who would ordinarily not fall into the luxury performance segment (young 20 somethings with high level of disposable incomes) and the lower end of the luxury performance segment (people who enjoy performance but are somewhat more price sensitive or brand conscious). So frankly comparing a euro-supersports car to a Nissan Skyline is a fairly pointless discussion since they are targeting two different market segments. Both are high performance machines but the marketing strategy is very different.

Now it is possible that Nissan may try to gradually reposition the brand in the same segment that Ferrari etc. are. This is a fairly common strategy for mid-market brands (which is where the Japanese brands are right now). It is not easy, and it takes time and money, but it can happen. So don't merely dismiss the brand out of hand by saying "it used to be a Datsun" and consider what the brand's values are today and whether they relate to you. You could argue that if Nissan's intent is to compete in the luxury / performance arena use of the Nissan brand may be unwise, they could achieve a better effect if they developed a new brand (e.g. Toyota / Lexus). But that remains to be seen.

Brands are an interesting phenomenon.

[robert_s_hunter]

Originally Posted by ridinhome

Actually, Lamborghini brand tractors are still made, its just that the tractor division was sold Lamborghini Tractors

So I think we're finally getting to the nub of the argument here. I agree the issue is one of brand positioning and market segmentation. First of all, a company's choice of whether to use separate brands (Fiat / Ferrari) or sub-brands / model designations (e.g. Armani / Emporio Armani) depends on a) the "stretchability" of the brand and market segment they are looking at. Clearly Nissan is not trying to target the middle to upper end of the luxury performance car segment. Instead, it seems to me they are targeting the upper end of the market segment who would ordinarily not fall into the luxury performance segment (young 20 somethings with high level of disposable incomes) and the lower end of the luxury performance segment (people who enjoy performance but are somewhat more price sensitive or brand conscious). So frankly comparing a euro-supersports car to a Nissan Skyline is a fairly pointless discussion since they are targeting two different market segments. Both are high performance machines but the marketing strategy is very different.

Now it is possible that Nissan may try to gradually reposition the brand in the same segment that Ferrari etc. are. This is a fairly common strategy for mid-market brands (which is where the Japanese brands are right now). It is not easy, and it takes time and money, but it can happen. So don't merely dismiss the brand out of hand by saying "it used to be a Datsun" and consider what the brand's values are today and whether they relate to you. You could argue that if Nissan's intent is to compete in the luxury / performance arena use of the Nissan brand may be unwise, they could achieve a better effect if they developed a new brand (e.g. Toyota / Lexus). But that remains to be seen.

Brands are an interesting phenomenon.

Point taken about the tractor brand. I was thinking more along the lines of the actual manufacturer.

Excellent analysis of branding, I must say. You've hit the problem on the head, in terms of "what the brand's values are today and whether they relate to you." This is such a long-term issue that massive shifts are extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I would argue that such a car would far better serve the Infinity brand, as it has lagged woefully behind the firm establishment of the Lexus brand as a fixture in it's segment. Far too many don't see Infinity as an equal competitor to Lexus, which was the very purpose of the brand. Elevating the Nissan brand only creates a greater problem for Infinity, and abandones the value segment entirely.

Nissan needs to spend more time thinking about just what they're trying to do. At this point, they're just shooting themselves in the foot. At the same time, I can't help but wonder if Nissan's Renault parent, and it's retail brand, may have something to do with it....

[ridinhome]

Originally Posted by robert_s_hunter

Excellent analysis of branding, I must say. You've hit the problem on the head, in terms of "what the brand's values are today and whether they relate to you." This is such a long-term issue that massive shifts are extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I would argue that such a car would far better serve the Infinity brand, as it has lagged woefully behind the firm establishment of the Lexus brand as a fixture in it's segment. Far too many don't see Infinity as an equal competitor to Lexus, which was the very purpose of the brand. Elevating the Nissan brand only creates a greater problem for Infinity, and abandones the value segment entirely.

Thank you. Only cost me $100,000 in b-school tuition...

Good point on the possible confusion between Infinity / Nissan. I wonder whether this might have something to do with different branding strategies between countries. Someone mentioned before that the GT-R is not being sold in the US and is an import. So it could be the case that "Nissan" has stronger brand value in Japan as a luxury performance brand than in the States, hence the use of the Infinity brand here. I don't know for sure, just hypothesizing.

Its funny. Chevy / Ford in the States are not luxury brands (leaving aside the Vette which you could argue is a brand in and of itself) but in India for example, they charge a premium for their cars compared with some of the local manufacturers because of the prestige associated with an "American" car.

[Royal Tiger]

Originally Posted by robert_s_hunter

If anything, at the price-point, it would have been far better off being badged as an Infinity. The dealer network, and the level of service it's dealers provide, would be a much better combination. The last thing a customer bringing in this caliber of car should expect is to have to wait behind a Sentra for service, and to drive away in a Versa service loaner.

Which is why Toyota's next supercar will be sold as a Lexus here.

Nissan made a great car, but in this country, the name means more then in other countries. Service being an excellent point. Porsche doesn't make you wait for a 20 year old Volkswagen to come off the lift, or give you a Jetta loaner, even though the Jetta is an excellent car. People buying a $120k car expect to be treated better then those buying a car that sold for $20k. That's just the way it is.

[Whymista]

Originally Posted by robert_s_hunter

My, but we're easily offended, aren't we? Was it the "short pants" comment?

Yes it was I had to go see my therapist because you hurt me so.

Lol you enjoy living with your typical better than everyone euro attitude.

I'll laugh when the jap crap destroys you and doesn't cost an arm and a leg to mod/fix

[robert_s_hunter]

Originally Posted by Whymista

Yes it was I had to go see my therapist because you hurt me so.

Lol you enjoy living with your typical better than everyone euro attitude.

I'll laugh when the jap crap destroys you and doesn't cost an arm and a leg to mod/fix

Apparently, you don't read very well, as you've completely missed the point of the conversation. I really am bashing on the Japanese, and their cars, aren't I? As the guy who made the original observation that I concurred with, and that you can't stand, I'll bet "tmkreutzer" really can't stand them.... (That's sarcasm, just in case you have yet to figure out where he lives.)

If you've seen a "typical better than everyone euro attitude", you really haven't been paying attention. For your edification, I happen to own cars from all three major car-making nations. Don't strain yourself, that means the United States, Germany and Japan. I once got paid for the priviledge of driving amazing cars from all over the world (everyone should be so lucky), and I know better than most that the badge on a hood has little to do with what it's attached to.

The only one who has made reference about anything being "jap crap" is you. Perhaps you should stop posting, your intelligence is showing....