If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Open ForumsThe Open forum was created for people to discuss anything else Non-Moto related. Just about anything goes! Please remember this is a loosely moderated area. If you do not have thick skin. We suggest you stay out of here.
Posts: 4,523
Casino Cash: $41721
Sportbike: See sig.
Yes, It will take off. this is not a guess, it's a fact
The wheels don't push the plane forward, the propeller pulls it through the air. It doesn't matter how fast the ground is moving underneath the plane, it could be "pushing" the plane back at 300mph, the prop will still pull it forward. It might take a little longer before it reaches take-off speed due to the rotational friction of the tires, but it's so minimal that it WILL accelerate enough to take off.
Think of it this way... immagine that you're sitting in a rolling desk chair that's on a conveyor belt moving backwards... you're holding a rope that's attached to the wall at the front of the conveyor belt.... can you pull yourself forward? yes.... pull yourself fast enough & guess what, you'll feel a breeze. That's the same exact scenario as the plane. The spinning prop is just like you holding the rope but alot more powerful, the desk chair is the wheels on the plane.
Yes, It will take off. this is not a guess, it's a fact
The wheels don't push the plane forward, the propeller pulls it through the air. It doesn't matter how fast the ground is moving underneath the plane, it could be "pushing" the plane back at 300mph, the prop will still pull it forward. It might take a little longer before it reaches take-off speed due to the rotational friction of the tires, but it's so minimal that it WILL accelerate enough to take off.
I just don't understand how anyone can think that this is true. If the plane is moving in one direction and something is moving backwards at a rate of speed that is enough to keep the plane stationary, then it doesn't matter HOW much thrust it generates, it won't create any lift.
__________________
In Life, Try To Be The Kind Of Person Your Dog Thinks You Are...
2002 Kawasaki Ninja 250--SV-650 rear shock, Sonic Springs .80kg/mm front springs, ZX-2R graphics, flush mount front signals, tail pod rear signals, Kerker 2-1 race pipe, Factory Pro Stage 3 jet kit, UNI pod filters, ZG Double Bubble, Custom Creations soft vinyl seat cover, Kawi Green rim stripes, carbon brake fluid cap, carbon control levers, No Rear Fender, Yamaha R1 Style Mirrors, V-LEDs.com H4 HID Kit, Nelson Rigg Silver Streak Mini Saddle Bags, Rapid Transit Recon Tank Bag, Various Manufacturers Decals
I just don't understand how anyone can think that this is true. If the plane is moving in one direction and something is moving backwards at a rate of speed that is enough to keep the plane stationary, then it doesn't matter HOW much thrust it generates, it won't create any lift.
The force generated by the friction and inertia of the wheels is so small compared to the thrust of the engines that it can be completely neglected. Therefore the wheels are frictionless and there is no force acting on the plane opposing the motion of the engines (other than the inertia of the plance itself which is the same as any other flight).
Posts: 4,523
Casino Cash: $41721
Sportbike: See sig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimpdiggity
I just don't understand how anyone can think that this is true. If the plane is moving in one direction and something is moving backwards at a rate of speed that is enough to keep the plane stationary, then it doesn't matter HOW much thrust it generates, it won't create any lift.
Posts: 4,523
Casino Cash: $41721
Sportbike: See sig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimpdiggity
I just don't understand how anyone can think that this is true. If the plane is moving in one direction and something is moving backwards at a rate of speed that is enough to keep the plane stationary, then it doesn't matter HOW much thrust it generates, it won't create any lift.
yes... it will... re-read my post above, i just added an example that'll clear it up for you.
PS, it may not mean much, but i've had my pilot's license for about 10 years. I sorta know what makes a plane fly.
Right, but by doing that you're disregarding the one part of the problem that says that the conveyor adjusts it's speed to stay constant with the airplane.
In order for a plane to take off, it HAS to move forward. It doesn't just magically jump into the air.
If the plane in this situation moves forward at all, then it has violated the original stipulation of the problem in that the conveyor will move in the opposite direction of the plane at the same speed that the plane is travelling.
By your logic, the plane can take off from a standstill...which is impossible. If you're claiming that eventually the plane will move forward, then you are violating the conditions that have been set in the problem.
__________________
In Life, Try To Be The Kind Of Person Your Dog Thinks You Are...
2002 Kawasaki Ninja 250--SV-650 rear shock, Sonic Springs .80kg/mm front springs, ZX-2R graphics, flush mount front signals, tail pod rear signals, Kerker 2-1 race pipe, Factory Pro Stage 3 jet kit, UNI pod filters, ZG Double Bubble, Custom Creations soft vinyl seat cover, Kawi Green rim stripes, carbon brake fluid cap, carbon control levers, No Rear Fender, Yamaha R1 Style Mirrors, V-LEDs.com H4 HID Kit, Nelson Rigg Silver Streak Mini Saddle Bags, Rapid Transit Recon Tank Bag, Various Manufacturers Decals
yes... it will... re-read my post above, i just added an example that'll clear it up for you.
PS, it doesn't mean much, but i've had my pilot's license for about 10 years.
Right, I see how your post above with the rolling chair works.
However, if the conveyor belt increased in speed whenever you increased in speed, you would continue to stay still.
If you are pulling the rope at the same rate that would normally achieve, say, 20 feet per second speed, and the conveyor was setup to match YOUR speed, then as soon as you reach that speed the conveyor will match that speed at the exact time you do...thus causing you to once again be pulling for nothing.
__________________
In Life, Try To Be The Kind Of Person Your Dog Thinks You Are...
2002 Kawasaki Ninja 250--SV-650 rear shock, Sonic Springs .80kg/mm front springs, ZX-2R graphics, flush mount front signals, tail pod rear signals, Kerker 2-1 race pipe, Factory Pro Stage 3 jet kit, UNI pod filters, ZG Double Bubble, Custom Creations soft vinyl seat cover, Kawi Green rim stripes, carbon brake fluid cap, carbon control levers, No Rear Fender, Yamaha R1 Style Mirrors, V-LEDs.com H4 HID Kit, Nelson Rigg Silver Streak Mini Saddle Bags, Rapid Transit Recon Tank Bag, Various Manufacturers Decals
Posts: 4,523
Casino Cash: $41721
Sportbike: See sig.
ok, so you're sitting on a conveyor belt in a rolling chair, holding a rope & the conveyor belt is moving backwards at 10000mph.... you can still hold yourself still & pull yourself forward cuz the only thing that's pulling you back is the rolling friction of the wheels, NOT the conveyor belt!
seriously... stop disagreeing w/ me... you're making yourself look like an idiot. it doesn't matter how fast the conveyor belt moves backwards, the prop will still pull the plane forwards through the air, generating airflow over the wings, creating lift.
See, the way I look at it is, no matter what the force is that's moving the plane forward, the conveyor belt is being moved by a force that is equal to that and thus is causing the plane to stay in a stationary position.
Do we all at least agree that a plane can't take off if it's not moving forward?? (and no, VTOL planes like a Harrier jet don't count)
__________________
In Life, Try To Be The Kind Of Person Your Dog Thinks You Are...
2002 Kawasaki Ninja 250--SV-650 rear shock, Sonic Springs .80kg/mm front springs, ZX-2R graphics, flush mount front signals, tail pod rear signals, Kerker 2-1 race pipe, Factory Pro Stage 3 jet kit, UNI pod filters, ZG Double Bubble, Custom Creations soft vinyl seat cover, Kawi Green rim stripes, carbon brake fluid cap, carbon control levers, No Rear Fender, Yamaha R1 Style Mirrors, V-LEDs.com H4 HID Kit, Nelson Rigg Silver Streak Mini Saddle Bags, Rapid Transit Recon Tank Bag, Various Manufacturers Decals
ok, so you're sitting on a conveyor belt in a rolling chair, holding a rope & the conveyor belt is moving backwards at 10000mph.... the only thing that's pulling you back is the rolling friction of the wheels.... and again, that's not much.
Right, but if every bit of extra effort that you put into pulling yourself forward, the belt compensates it's speed to match the speed that you are moving at, once again you're sitting still...
__________________
In Life, Try To Be The Kind Of Person Your Dog Thinks You Are...
2002 Kawasaki Ninja 250--SV-650 rear shock, Sonic Springs .80kg/mm front springs, ZX-2R graphics, flush mount front signals, tail pod rear signals, Kerker 2-1 race pipe, Factory Pro Stage 3 jet kit, UNI pod filters, ZG Double Bubble, Custom Creations soft vinyl seat cover, Kawi Green rim stripes, carbon brake fluid cap, carbon control levers, No Rear Fender, Yamaha R1 Style Mirrors, V-LEDs.com H4 HID Kit, Nelson Rigg Silver Streak Mini Saddle Bags, Rapid Transit Recon Tank Bag, Various Manufacturers Decals
ok, so you're sitting on a conveyor belt in a rolling chair, holding a rope & the conveyor belt is moving backwards at 10000mph.... you can still hold yourself still & pull yourself forward cuz the only thing that's pulling you back is the rolling friction of the wheels, NOT the conveyor belt!
seriously... stop disagreeing w/ me... you're making yourself look like an idiot. it doesn't matter how fast the conveyor belt moves backwards, the prop will still pull the plane forwards through the air.
I'm not going to stop disagreeing with you. You are showing an inability to comprehend the initial problem. I'm not sure how you figure an airplane will takeoff while it's not moving.
You've been a pilot for 10 years, and you still don't understand that a plane needs lift to take off?
__________________
In Life, Try To Be The Kind Of Person Your Dog Thinks You Are...
2002 Kawasaki Ninja 250--SV-650 rear shock, Sonic Springs .80kg/mm front springs, ZX-2R graphics, flush mount front signals, tail pod rear signals, Kerker 2-1 race pipe, Factory Pro Stage 3 jet kit, UNI pod filters, ZG Double Bubble, Custom Creations soft vinyl seat cover, Kawi Green rim stripes, carbon brake fluid cap, carbon control levers, No Rear Fender, Yamaha R1 Style Mirrors, V-LEDs.com H4 HID Kit, Nelson Rigg Silver Streak Mini Saddle Bags, Rapid Transit Recon Tank Bag, Various Manufacturers Decals
Right, I see how your post above with the rolling chair works.
However, if the conveyor belt increased in speed whenever you increased in speed, you would continue to stay still.
If you are pulling the rope at the same rate that would normally achieve, say, 20 feet per second speed, and the conveyor was setup to match YOUR speed, then as soon as you reach that speed the conveyor will match that speed at the exact time you do...thus causing you to once again be pulling for nothing.
Read my first post. The wheels act as nothing more than bearings. They (or the conveyor belt) provide no force to counteract the force of the engines. Since the force of the engines isn't oppsed, the plane will accelerate.
Right, I see how your post above with the rolling chair works.
However, if the conveyor belt increased in speed whenever you increased in speed, you would continue to stay still.
If you are pulling the rope at the same rate that would normally achieve, say, 20 feet per second speed, and the conveyor was setup to match YOUR speed, then as soon as you reach that speed the conveyor will match that speed at the exact time you do...thus causing you to once again be pulling for nothing.
You're a post whore and deluded.
Food for thought... the wheels are only there for reducing friction with the ground. Ski's could be substituted for wheels.
But I know your type... even if I say you have ski's on a conveyor belt made of ice, and the conveyor was made to match the speed of the plane, you would still say the plane wouldn't take off.
Read my first post. The wheels act as nothing more than bearings. They (or the conveyor belt) provide no force to counteract the force of the engines. Since the force of the engines isn't oppsed, the plane will accelerate.
I can see this exactly...and I'm not disagreeing with this idea. What I'm trying to do is go EXACTLY by what I think the problem is stating.
I feel that the problem is stating that no matter what speed the plane is moving at, the conveyor is moving at a speed that will counteract that speed and keep the plane standing still.
__________________
In Life, Try To Be The Kind Of Person Your Dog Thinks You Are...
2002 Kawasaki Ninja 250--SV-650 rear shock, Sonic Springs .80kg/mm front springs, ZX-2R graphics, flush mount front signals, tail pod rear signals, Kerker 2-1 race pipe, Factory Pro Stage 3 jet kit, UNI pod filters, ZG Double Bubble, Custom Creations soft vinyl seat cover, Kawi Green rim stripes, carbon brake fluid cap, carbon control levers, No Rear Fender, Yamaha R1 Style Mirrors, V-LEDs.com H4 HID Kit, Nelson Rigg Silver Streak Mini Saddle Bags, Rapid Transit Recon Tank Bag, Various Manufacturers Decals
Linear Mode
