this is bad

chesus · 12-23-2004, 01:23 PM

http://capwiz.com/liberty/issues/ale...739451&type=CO

Quote:

UPDATE: December 7th at 7:38 p.m.
The U.S. House passed the conference report on the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act by a vote of 336 "ayes" to 75 "noes." Vote Tally

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December 7, 2004

If you were a member of Congress, would you vote "yes" on a 3,000 page bill that you never had a chance to read? Most reasonable people wouldn't. Most reasonable people would want to read and study legislation before deciding how to vote; especially legislation as monumental as the intelligence reorganization legislation or the so-called 9/11 bill.

And monumental it is. The legislation would greatly affect various intelligence and military agencies and procedures; financial systems; international relations; not to mention civil liberties. In addition, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the legislation will cost $14.4 billion to implement between 2005 and 2009. That's $14.4 billion on top of the normal annual budgets for the various governmental agencies involved.

Yet this monumental legislation will be voted on by members of Congress without those members having had time to read, let alone study, the bill. It's just after 2:00 p.m. ET on Tuesday, December 7th. The U.S. House is expected to vote on the 9/11 bill sometime today or tomorrow. But at this moment, there isn't a copy of the final bill available for House members to read.

So, is there a provision in the bill to establish a national ID? No one seems to know. Or at least the people who do know aren't saying. What else is in the bill that the select few in Washington are keeping secret? Who knows? Anything could be...and that's the point.

Remember how passage of the Patriot Act was handled? Members had only two to three hours to read the final 400-page bill before they had to cast their vote. The legislation that created the Department of Homeland Security was handled in the same way.

So, here we go again. Everyone is talking about this monumental legislation as if they've read it. News reporters, commentators, political analysts, think tanks; 9/11 families; and yes, members of Congress are busy sounding off as experts trying to convince the American public that Congress should pass it. Have any of these people actually read it? Their opinions are just based upon someone else's opinions that are based upon other people's opinions and so on.

The House version of the intelligence reorganization bill is in two volumes. Volume 1 is 1,778 pages. Volume 2 is 1,586 pages. How many pages are in the final conference report and what exactly has been added or deleted at the last minute? Well, as of 2:00 p.m. ET, the final report is not available for members to read. But the vote on that enormous bill will be held within hours.

We urge a "no" vote because we believe the bill has a national ID provision in it. In addition, we urge a "no" vote, simply because members of Congress should know what the bill says in print before voting on it.

Urge your U.S. representative to vote "no." To send your message, go to the Take Action Now box above.

Casket Crew · 12-23-2004, 01:43 PM

I'm not sure how I feel about national IDs. Really I need more facts on them before I could urge my reps to vote either way...

chesus · 12-23-2004, 02:05 PM

my main concern isnt really the ID cards, its just the fact that they don't even get a chance to read/study the bill before voting on it. I'm sure they were informed about the bill, but by who? those who want it passed... probably

i understand there is always a threat both domestic and foreign, but at what point do we draw the line and say, hey, you're intruding into our personal lives a little too much... i'd hate to see 1984 become true