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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kevin_stevens View Post
WTF do you know about driving an F1 car?!?

KeS
It's just an analogy kevin. Take a deep breath and relax.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 09:55 AM
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Kevin has this tendency to get angry at people that he feels are giving out bad advice. It appears you are the object of his right now. This may have happened because you got a 600cc bike and he thinks you are telling other riders that that is an ok first bike.

For the next few weeks, he will randomly pop into threads and take (legitimate but infuriating) potshots at you when you make some sort of mistake. Don't worry, it's possible to survive this.

And for the record Kevin, I still don't think easing on the throttle when you're taking a blind curve too fast is always the right move on the street, especially for new riders. In NYC, there is almost ALWAYS going to be a stopped car at the end of that blind curve- oh, and there will be three buckles in the road along the way because this is New York and we're going bankrupt trying to maintain our roads. Sometimes, unless you know for sure the rear tire is about to lose traction, the right answer is to pull the clutch in and pray for the best. (I agree with you for the track and for curves where you can see the entire roadway and it's clear. ) I hope you don't still hate me for holding this view.

Johnny, just do everybody a favor and don't give advice on first motorcycles. You chose a 600cc. It's a decision I would not have encouraged and a lot of people more experienced than you and I (I've ridden for five years which is nothing on this board) would have disagreed with, but it was your choice and you had the right to make that particular decision. That said, now is probably a good time to grit your teeth and let the riders with decades of riding experience and teaching experience tell people that it's probably better to start with a smaller engine.

Better yet, do Kevin a favor and don't reference choosing a first motorcycle or reference analogies to 600cc motorcycles. I am also going to do Kevin a favor and not talk about how to deal with taking a curve too fast after this thread for another two years, even though we will probably now share Kevin's wrath fixation for the next few weeks.

Last edited by GoIllini; 11-23-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 12:16 PM
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For the next few weeks, he will randomly pop into threads and take (legitimate but infuriating) potshots at you when you make some sort of mistake. Don't worry, it's possible to survive this.
Better than taking potshots at ME when you make some sort of mistake.

KeS
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GoIllini View Post
Kevin has this tendency to get angry at people that he feels are giving out bad advice. It appears you are the object of his right now. This may have happened because you got a 600cc bike and he thinks you are telling other riders that that is an ok first bike.

For the next few weeks, he will randomly pop into threads and take (legitimate but infuriating) potshots at you when you make some sort of mistake. Don't worry, it's possible to survive this.

And for the record Kevin, I still don't think easing on the throttle when you're taking a blind curve too fast is always the right move on the street, especially for new riders. In NYC, there is almost ALWAYS going to be a stopped car at the end of that blind curve- oh, and there will be three buckles in the road along the way because this is New York and we're going bankrupt trying to maintain our roads. Sometimes, unless you know for sure the rear tire is about to lose traction, the right answer is to pull the clutch in and pray for the best. (I agree with you for the track and for curves where you can see the entire roadway and it's clear. ) I hope you don't still hate me for holding this view.

Johnny, just do everybody a favor and don't give advice on first motorcycles. You chose a 600cc. It's a decision I would not have encouraged and a lot of people more experienced than you and I (I've ridden for five years which is nothing on this board) would have disagreed with, but it was your choice and you had the right to make that particular decision. That said, now is probably a good time to grit your teeth and let the riders with decades of riding experience and teaching experience tell people that it's probably better to start with a smaller engine.

Better yet, do Kevin a favor and don't reference choosing a first motorcycle or reference analogies to 600cc motorcycles. I am also going to do Kevin a favor and not talk about how to deal with taking a curve too fast after this thread for another two years, even though we will probably now share Kevin's wrath fixation for the next few weeks.
Sorry guys. I'll keep my mouth shut.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kevin_stevens View Post
Better than taking potshots at ME when you make some sort of mistake.

KeS
Sorry Kevin. Potshot was probably a bit too loaded of a term for me to use here- I didn't mean for it to come off like an attack, but I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing a story that relates to OP's current situation. You do have a knack for following people around and posting disagreeable comments in completely unrelated threads.

And what mistake do you speak of?

Best regards.
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by GoIllini View Post
Sorry Kevin. Potshot was probably a bit too loaded of a term for me to use here- I didn't mean for it to come off like an attack, but I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing a story that relates to OP's current situation. You do have a knack for following people around and posting disagreeable comments in completely unrelated threads.

And what mistake do you speak of?

Best regards.
That may be your perception based on my method of reading posts. It doesn't feel like "following people around" to me.

I still haven't found anyone of any experience who agrees with your clutch-in approach, and enough people disagreed with it in the original thread that I'm surprised you chose to single me out.

I'm happy to stand by my body of work. While I'm sure I make mistakes, I don't Make Shit Up (tm), and I label what are my opinions vs what are objective facts or statistics. I don't make personal attacks, although I challenge what I consider to be unsubstantiated statements. And I'm going to be pretty aggressive about that in the new rider's forum, because of the ramifications of unqualified recommendations. If you don't like it, I suggest taking it up with one or another of the moderators here, and I'm happy to abide by their decision.

And only one person on this forum has ever made me angry, and you haven't seen it.

KeS
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:50 AM
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I still haven't found anyone of any experience who agrees with your clutch-in approach, and enough people disagreed with it in the original thread that I'm surprised you chose to single me out.
Well, you were the one who followed me into three different threads the two weeks after that and tried to call me an idiot each time. I guess I saw the same pattern here.

But to address your other point, what do you do when there's a bunch of cars ahead of you and you come into a curve too fast?

Hopefully, you came in planning on taking the curve at 70% of your traction, but now you're at 80%. If that's the case, you do the second best thing besides accelerating for maintaining traction- you get off the bike to get as much tire on the road as possible, and you maintain velocity and hope the cars ahead of you do, too. It's a blind curve and you can't see where it straightens out, so you don't want to make the assumption that everything ahead is clear. So rather than accelerate, to get some weight on the back, you just don't ask the tires to do anything more than maintain the curve they're already on. Now, if you need to slow down because a car stopped in front of you, you're doing it from the 50-3 mph from friction you came into the curve on, rather than 60 or 70.

I would agree with you for a reasonable-length curve on the track where no traffic or hazards would be expected.

Last edited by GoIllini; 11-24-2012 at 12:52 AM.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 02:06 AM
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a) That wasn't the situation you posed in your original thread.

b) As a hypothetical question, it sucks. What do you do to defend Lebron James when he gets the ball three feet from the rim? The only good answer is that you don't let it get to that point.

c) As a practical issue, you get on the brakes, standing the bike up enough to balance the added braking vs the ongoing cornering. Accomplishing this is a matter of experience and skill. As you run out of road you tip the bike back in, rolling on the throttle as per normal. At the last resort, faced with an immovable obstacle, I'd stand the bike up straight again and spend every microsecond reducing speed. Faced with running wide off the road I'd push the inside bar down until the bike lowsided.

d) I'm not going to respond further in this thread. If you want to discuss with me where in that scenario pulling the clutch in might fit, start a different thread or re-open your old one.

KeS

PS - For reference, here is my entry into that 2+ year old thread. I don't call Illini an idiot anywhere in it, or in any other thread I could readily bring up.

Bored of my 250 already...

Last edited by kevin_stevens; 11-24-2012 at 02:32 AM.
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 03:49 AM
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Why do I ride? To me, it is as religious as I'll ever feel. It is as sacrosanct to me as communion is to the faithful. I can no more dismiss my bike as a "toy" any more than I could dismiss my left arm as a "benign growth". Aboard my bike, I am at home with the earth I live on. I am made whole with the greater being...I go to a spiritual place of complete unity with the closest thing to what Christians call "heaven". I know how I sound right now: a total nutjob. But, t'is the truth, and that's all that matters.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us now. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down, now, and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may Posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" - Samuel Adams, Founder, brewer, and patriot.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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Why do I ride? To me, it is as religious as I'll ever feel. It is as sacrosanct to me as communion is to the faithful. I can no more dismiss my bike as a "toy" any more than I could dismiss my left arm as a "benign growth". Aboard my bike, I am at home with the earth I live on. I am made whole with the greater being...I go to a spiritual place of complete unity with the closest thing to what Christians call "heaven". I know how I sound right now: a total nutjob. But, t'is the truth, and that's all that matters.
Very well said Chauncey! A little nutty, but you're happy!
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