Hey guys, after wanting one since I started driving I am finally getting serious about getting a bike. I'm currently 19, 5'7 and around 215lbs. At first I had planned on getting something around 500-650cc based on my weight but after reading some posts here and seeing a couple bikes in person I have decided I definitely want to start on a 250. I'm kind of short and was on my toes sitting on a Ninja 250r and I'll likely put a lowering kit on whichever bike I get. However right now I'm really stuck between the CBR and the Ninja.
Reading some comparisons online the major differences I've found are that the CBR is a little more "up to date" being fuel injected vs. carbureted. Now I really don't know a thing about motors but I've gathered that really translates to a shorter wait time from ignition to driving and more responsive throttle. (I may be completely wrong). It also has the option of ABS which I haven't read a whole lot about. I'm guessing this would be a good option for beginners to avoid braking too hard? The Ninja however seems to have a smoother ride at freeway speeds since it has higher RPMs and top speed. So far this has me leaning toward the CBR.
I believe the dealer I'm going to go through only has the two models of these bikes that are at the $4,500 mark while they do have a used 2010 Ninja with about 750mi that's blacked out for 3995. And yes I have looked on craigslist for nice used bikes but around here no one has any decent condition older bikes. The earliest year I could find was a 04 Ninja and the guy wanted 3500 for it so I figure I'm better off getting one at the dealership.
I'll mostly be using this bike to commute to school and work. To school it's about a 15min drive on the highway and to work is about a 8min drive on country roads. I do however plan on taking it out for longer cruises on the interstates with some friends. So based on what info I've provided, and feel free to ask anything else that may be an important factor, what do you think would be the better bike for me?
P.S. I am going to be signing up to take the MSF classes but would like to have the bike before I start so I can use it during the training and get a good feel for it.
Well, the CBR is fuel-injected, which is huge IMO, but they're newer, so harder to find used, and more expensive used (and ugly!... at least I think they are). The Kawasaki is carbureted, which is a drag, but not terrible, but can be readily found on the used market for a good price.
Unless you live on some alien part of the country where a plethora of 250s are not going to be available to you on Craigslist, I'd say to skip the dealer and wait for a deal to come around. You may have done a search and not found anything, but give it time and something will come up. There is absolutely no way that a dealer is going to offer you a better deal than what you can find used on CL if you have a bit of patience.
Also, try using searchtempest.com to search CL. You'll never go back to searching Craigslist on their site.
First of all, that site is amazing thank you. But I'm still not finding anything less than about 3k unless it's got "minor body damage" or it's an 04-05 or earlier. I honestly think the pre-2008 Ninjas are pretty ugly. Another reason I'm not opposed to buying a new(er) one is that I don't see myself upgrading to a 600 or higher in the near future as I'm looking for fun more than speed. With all things considered which do you think is a better bike either in general or for me.
It seems to come down to fuel injected vs carberated. A difference of 1s in 0-60 time, a slight difference in gas mileage and IMO the Ninja does look better.
So is fuel injection worth being slightly slower? The difference in gas mileage doesn't seem huge. Another thing I'm curious about is whether the ABS system is worth an extra $500?
I have no experience with the Honda but have yet to really hear a negative thing about the 250... Ever. It's been the cream of the crop for 250cc bikes for 2 decades so you really can't go wrong with it.
What is your price range? Keep in mind that dealer price wont be 4k. It'll be 4k + title + tax + registration, for me it added on roughly $1700, albeit I paid more than 4k for mine so maybe $5500 OTD for you. That being said you can avoid some of that by waiting or driving a bit further to get one. It really shouldnt be hard at all to find one.
Also figure in your budget insurance and roughly $1000 for gear.
The dealership I went to gave me an estimate that ended up being around $130 a month, with no down payment and 8% interest which they said is on the high end. This included tax, title, tag, and freight as well as a $600 4 year 100% coverage, no deductible warranty. I'm pretty sure they calculated that price with the ~$4,500 2012 Ninja (it had the special edition paint job or something) They do currently have a 2010 Ninja with about 700mi on it though for just under 4k. So my guess is from the dealership I'm looking at about ~$150 a month or so. I make about $800 a month and only have another $150 in bills a month (Living at home while I go to school) so $150 a month on the bike is definitely affordable for me. I also prefer making payments rather than paying it up front (I could get the bike before it starts to get cold again lol). I got a quote from Progressive at $402 a year (~$36 a month) for a premium policy and I could possibly get it cheaper if I go through my parents insurance that my car is currently insured under).
$1000 Seems like an overestimate to me on gear though. I was looking at helmets and they seem to be available for around $150-200 and I'm sure gloves couldn't be expensive. I don't plan on getting leather pants or anything as I will mostly be driving to school and work and would prefer not to cook pizzas/sit in class in some hot leather pants. I will probably get a jacket though as I could at least store it somewhere. Other than that what kind of gear is there to get?
I'm leaning towards the Honda though. It doesn't hurt that me and my family are kind of Honda fanboy's haha. I drive a civic, my mom drives an accord, my sister drives a cr-v, my dad used to drive an accord to work that had just under 300,000 miles on it before he scrapped it. So I definitely have a lot of faith in Honda's I just wish it could match the performance of the Ninja. I'll just have to sit on them and see which one feels better.
$1000 Seems like an overestimate to me on gear though. I was looking at helmets and they seem to be available for around $150-200 and I'm sure gloves couldn't be expensive. I don't plan on getting leather pants or anything as I will mostly be driving to school and work and would prefer not to cook pizzas/sit in class in some hot leather pants. I will probably get a jacket though as I could at least store it somewhere. Other than that what kind of gear is there to get?
You won't notice the difference between the two performance wise, but with either bike you are making the right choice.
I assure you, its not an over-estimate. For sure do some research online and youll find out. Gear estimate (low-end gear that I wouldnt and most people here would be a bit weary of wearing)
$650, and again that is an low-end estimate for low-end gear. Roughly double the jacket price for leather and double the helmet price for a middle tier helmet and you've got $1000. Not to mention better boots, pants, and gloves that'll run ya $250, $290 and $100, respectively.
I'm not telling you to go out and buy the best gear money can buy, you dont even know how long you'll be riding for, you might not like motorcycles. I just want you to know the investment that is involved in buying GOOD gear. But ask anyone on this forum and they will suggest to buy all this gear, and wear it, every time you turn the key. Then ask yourself what your safety is worth. For me it's worth more than a $150 helmet, cheap gloves and "maybe" a jacket. I'm not trying to be a dick, but there's enough squids out there already wearing flip flops and sunglasses.
Also I was talking about the total price it will be for you to walk out the door minus your down payment, not monthly payments. You mentioned yourself an extra $600 for warranty (good call), roughly $250-$300 in sales tax, title and registration roughly $150 and any other dealer fees = est $1000 above the sticker price.
I'm only telling you this so you are not surprised by any of it considering it's your first bike and I was completely taken by surprise 4 years ago when I bought mine. If you've already purchased a vehicle from a dealership before this then you already know.
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Very different engines. One is great torque. I know I have a CBR250. Its a terrific in town bike. I get 60 mpg without even trying. The torque down low makes me sometimes wonder if I ever want to go back to a inline 4 again. The Ninja I've never ridden just read that you have to work the revs in town much more than the Honda which I dont like myself. The only advantage the Ninja has over the CBR is on the freeway where it is faster and has higher top speed. So decide where you main riding will be. I think its a crime for overseas Ninjas 250 having FI while in 2012 USA 250 Ninjas have carbs. Would you buy a Carb car in 2012. NO. So unless Kawasaki fixes that screw them imho.
Just go test drive each. A dealer wont give you a hard time. Its not like you are in there asking to test drive a Busa or ZX14.
Dealers RARELY do test rides unless it's a special event or they know you personally or have someone who can vouch for you.
As for boots, I highly recommend investing in your feet and ankles. Sneakers won't protect you worth a damn. Serious injury can result in even a minor tipover at parking lot speeds. I recommend sturdy hiking or work boots at the absolute very least.
Sneakers and motorcycles dont mix. Those laces can get caught somewhere and youre asking for trouble. I've worn sneakers on rides before and tucked in the laces but was really consicous about it. Get some boots or riding shoes.
I never see any one mention this but, since you said you are vertically challenged I'll throw it out there;
The Honda (as is the case with most Honda's) has a wider rider seat. This translates to less foot on the ground with the exact same seat height. Flat footing is over rated BTW, once you get comfortable with moving the bike at slow speed I would put the stock links back on. You only need one foot to hold up any modern sporty bike and you'll appreciate the increased ground clearance and superior handling (especially at your weight) when you get more comfortable in the twisty bits.
Oh yeah, EFI is nice, but I think it wouldn't hurt any serious motorcycle enthusiast to be forced to learn to clean a carb at least once.
I am female, 5'6", I weigh 120 lbs but I weighed 108 when I learned to ride. I learned to ride on a ninja 600 and my first bike was an 05 636. My suggestion is to have a friends teach you to ride on a 250 or a 600 if you want but you are going to outgrow that 250 fast and youll kick yourself when you want to get a new one...if your dead set on starting with a 250 then by all means go ahead but dont get a loan by something super cheap to learn on and maybe take ur test with and then go out and get a nicer 600 when you know how to ride. As far as height goes again im 5'6" I can stand up a Hyabusa which outweighs most sportbikes and is pretty tall at stock height...not to mention ive seen ppl who can only touch on 1 foot ride with no lowering links whatsoever and do stunts and all that shit. Trust me on this If I at my size can handle a 600 so can you! =)
PS as far as the gear goes you can buy mechanics gloves they work great and any normal workboot you dont need to spend 150 on them...ive only ever seen ppl wear pants on the track. The two things you should never sacrafice on for price is #1 your helmet and #2 your Jacket. Do not buy cheap ones I have watched ppl smash heads on pavement its not pretty and you are going to want a good helemt if you ever crash your bike you will thank everything you hold dear you had a good helmet...there are a lot of nice ones out there somewhere around the 300-400 dollar range should be a nice helmet. Make sure your Jacket has a back pad shoulder pad and elbow pads and is a good brand...icon is always a good place to start! =)
I am female, 5'6", I weigh 120 lbs but I weighed 108 when I learned to ride. I learned to ride on a ninja 600 and my first bike was an 05 636. My suggestion is to have a friends teach you to ride on a 250 or a 600 if you want but you are going to outgrow that 250 fast and youll kick yourself when you want to get a new one...if your dead set on starting with a 250 then by all means go ahead but dont get a loan by something super cheap to learn on and maybe take ur test with and then go out and get a nicer 600 when you know how to ride. As far as height goes again im 5'6" I can stand up a Hyabusa which outweighs most sportbikes and is pretty tall at stock height...not to mention ive seen ppl who can only touch on 1 foot ride with no lowering links whatsoever and do stunts and all that shit. Trust me on this If I at my size can handle a 600 so can you! =)
PS as far as the gear goes you can buy mechanics gloves they work great and any normal workboot you dont need to spend 150 on them...ive only ever seen ppl wear pants on the track. The two things you should never sacrafice on for price is #1 your helmet and #2 your Jacket. Do not buy cheap ones I have watched ppl smash heads on pavement its not pretty and you are going to want a good helemt if you ever crash your bike you will thank everything you hold dear you had a good helmet...there are a lot of nice ones out there somewhere around the 300-400 dollar range should be a nice helmet. Make sure your Jacket has a back pad shoulder pad and elbow pads and is a good brand...icon is always a good place to start! =)
You are really offering some terrible advice here. Just because you started on a 600 doesn't make that a good bike to learn on. Mechanics gloves may work great riding... But you don't buy a glove for riding... You buy it for crashing. There's no way a mechanics glove would hold up at all in a crash. What kind of ankle protection does a work boot really offer? Walking is so much cooler than being pushed in a wheelchair. Do you know why people wear riding pants on the track? So they are protected in a crash. Why wouldn't you want that protection on the street? I doubt I'd be walking right now if I hadn't been wearing pants when I crashed last month. I impacted right on my knee at highway speeds and walked away from it. AFAIK, there isn't a huge difference in protection (if at all) between the really expensive SNELL rated helmets and the cheaper SNELL rated ones. It's about comfort, noise levels, weight, features, etc. Personally, I'd spend less on a helmet (as long as it was still SNELL rated) if it meant I had money to spend on good gloves, pants, boots, etc.
Some ppl have different oppinions i have mine and you have yours...I didnt say he had to learn on a 600 or even start out on one I said he was gonna outgrow it so to get a cheap 250 to learn on...there is nothing wrong with starting out on a 600...im not an idiot i dont ride fast and i dont do stunts or other stupid shit when i ride...its not all about speed...and realistically more riders out there ride in sneakers sweatshirts shorts no helemt no jacket n no gloves...at least i own a helemt and a jacket and when my state says i dont have to wear one i still do...so dont patronize me because i offered him a little bit of friendly advice...the kids not riding on the track or going 100 miles an hr hes going to and from school and idc what gear you have on if a car its you at 65 miles an hr your pants boots jacket...none of it is gonna protect you! and the kid whos cross i visit every year proves that becuase he was wearing all the right gear and it didnt save him...if you dont like my advice then fine give him your own but sit there and say my advice is terrible because everyone is diff.
Some ppl have different oppinions i have mine and you have yours...I didnt say he had to learn on a 600 or even start out on one I said he was gonna outgrow it so to get a cheap 250 to learn on...there is nothing wrong with starting out on a 600...im not an idiot i dont ride fast and i dont do stunts or other stupid shit when i ride...its not all about speed...and realistically more riders out there ride in sneakers sweatshirts shorts no helemt no jacket n no gloves...at least i own a helemt and a jacket and when my state says i dont have to wear one i still do...so dont patronize me because i offered him a little bit of friendly advice...the kids not riding on the track or going 100 miles an hr hes going to and from school and idc what gear you have on if a car its you at 65 miles an hr your pants boots jacket...none of it is gonna protect you! and the kid whos cross i visit every year proves that becuase he was wearing all the right gear and it didnt save him...if you dont like my advice then fine give him your own but sit there and say my advice is terrible because everyone is diff.
I'm glad that you wear some gear. I'm not trying to insult you. However, to tell a new rider that he doesn't need some gear, to buy mechanics gloves instead of real gloves, and that boots and pants are not needed is a bit irresponsible IMO. Gear may or may not save you if you're hit by a car, but the blanket statement that it won't is definitely false. This is not an opinion, just ask someone who has survived a similar crash due to wearing gear.... But one thing is 100% certain. Gear that you don't wear will never protect you. And yes, my opinion is that your advice is terrible. I don't think you'll find too many here that will sympathize with you on this one. It is one thing to make the decision not to fully gear up yourself. That's an individual decision. However, it's another thing to suggest to a new rider that gearing up isn't necessary.
ppl wear more gear on the track becuase your more likely to crash on the track due to high risk speeds...and i wasnt the only one on this thread that suggested a workboot so you can quote all of them too...
ppl wear more gear on the track becuase your more likely to crash on the track due to high risk speeds...and i wasnt the only one on this thread that suggested a workboot so you can quote all of them too...
Newbies can survive on 600's, but most fizzle out like a wet bottle rocket. I like seeing people start a life-long love affair with motorcycling.
As far as your quote about boots, I rather see someone in Doc Martens over a pair of Vans. I, myself, rarely wear motorcycle boots on the street, but I wouldn't suggest someone follows my example.
It's his opinion that you gave terrible advice. Neither of your advice can be proven as fact, so it's both opinion. One erring on the side of caution, the other doing barely what is necessary to scrape by.
You're new to the these forums SpecWarGrl. These are safety conscious forums. When you say what you said in your first post you WILL be called on it by any of 30+ people that browse these newbie forums. Sorry, that's the just the way it is around here. All the gear, all the time. :shrug
That said, you have some holes in your argument. Expect them to be pointed at and you be told about them.
I understand what everyone is saying...and i may be new to this forum but I am not new to motorcycle forums...im from ny and idk what ppl know but ive ridden with one of the largest group of riders 315 riders...most of them are personal friends...and alot of them are stunter and street riders...I do have a few friends that ride on tracks and they tend to ride with most of their gear all the time...Im not saying the that everyone shouldnt gear up...sorry if that is the way it sounded...I actually have riding gloves also yes...tho ive never ridden in boots or pants of any kind tho i did look into buying them at some point and i just couldnt afford them...I was trying to sympathize with the kid on his size and height seeing as that was what mostly detered him from getting a 600...to answer someones question honestly ive only had one season of riding under my belt but i have my liscense and i never took a course (not saying you shouldnt just that i didnt) and i got through my first yr with no accidents and put over 3000 miles on my bike...plus i made several long trips by myself and have had other friends allow me to ride there bikes...i was a lucky first time rider...ive been in the riding scene for quite a few years tho and most of the time its spent video taping my friends and there antics...I take criticism very well...just dont be rude about it plz...again just trying to sympathize with someone...i got through riding a 600 just fine and i found no trouble at all at learning on it...
I don't understand the problem with buying some Cortech Latigo WP boots and Draggin' Jeans. Sure, they're not as cheap as jeans and work boots, nor are they as deterrent to harm and leather pants and some A* SMX Plus boots (which I love, btw). ...but $270 for some boots and kevlar jeans with soft knee and hip armor is hardly breaking the bank and is much MuCh MUCH more protective than normal jeans and Brahma work boots.
...as for the MSF course, I've been riding a piddly 4 years and to this day I still use the information I've learned from that course. (Most notably, yesterday, when u-turning twice WITH MY FEET ON MY BIKE'S PEGS and at a MUCH tighter arc than the Harley guy I saw do the same thing with his fucking feet down...and that's just one example.)
Don't go too hard on her guys lol. I appreciate any advice. As long as I can find a good pair of boots (cheap(er), decent looking, comfortable to walk long distances in) I'll buy some and wear them on my daily commutes. I doubt too many of them are comfortable to walk long distances in. Remember I'm going to be riding to classes and would really prefer not to walk around 2 miles a day in large stiff boots, leather pants, etc. And definitely not at work. I will get some nice gloves, jacket and one of the cheaper SNELL helmets. As far as sneakers, I definitely know what you mean. I remember when I was younger I was riding a bicycle and my laces got caught in the gear and I went straight to the ground. I'll have to see how comfortable I feel with wearing sneakers.
Also I know shorter distances doesn't mean safer. I guess what I was trying to say is that I don't want to have to put on all this gear to ride 10min and then take it all back off, that's assuming I would even have somewhere to store it (which I wouldn't at school). I know it's probably not the safest practice but the inconvenience would nearly make it pointless to ride the bike.
As far as 600cc vs 250cc, a 600cc probably wouldn't be too bad to start on but I'm perfectly fine with a 250 for now. It's still going to be a fun ride and with the way gas prices are these days the fuel economy of these smaller bikes is definitely going to make a difference on the wallet. I'm sure I'll see guys on their 600s or b***** and get a little jealous but I also don't suffer from penis envy. A 250 will keep me sated through college, and then I'll be able to buy as nice of a bike as I'd like.
Oh and what exactly does the upkeep of a carb entail. Like I said I know nothing about engines.
Pull tank, pull airbox, pull carbs, clean and reassemble, sync, put back together - took me about 5 hours the first time not counting the overnight time to soak where I did nothing.
Run a search on the forum of carb cleaning writeups, theres TONS of them. I was a bit intimidated at first because I had never done it before but afterwards I was glad I did, I knew a hell of alot more after than I did before. In all it's one of the easier things you can do and see great results from. It's really not that hard, and doesn't have to be done often at all, I'm not giving a timetable here but I know some riders who ride street only do it after every season at most, some more and some less often.
I am 22 and female and even I have never in my life nor will I ever spend 120 dollars on one pair of jeans bahahaha =P...there is nothing wrong with buying all the right gear...but when I bought my first bike 270 dollars was definitely stretchin it...but i had a car bike rent and other bills to pay and on minimal pay...so all i made sure i had was what i was told to get by all the ppl that i rode with and they taught me to ride and i trusted them and i havent wrecked yet..knock on wood =P
Even if a person is a great rider, there's always that chance of some idiot driver causing an unavoidable accident. I think when it comes to minimizing the damage that could be done to one's body if that situation does ever occur... it's not really worth penny pinching.
Hopefully that situation never even happens to you, but better safe than sorry, I think. However, if you don't think it's worth it, that's your choice... it's your body, your life.
At the risk of sounding like snob... I'm totally worth the +$1k I'm spending on gear... and since I'm sure I'll look super sexy in my power ranger suit :rolleyes I may have to spend another $1k for a two piece... :giggle
Then dear God, don't look at the leather or high grade textile pants. If you do, be sure to will you bike to me before you do.
:shrug I bought my Draggin' Jeans without flinching. Serving me well the last 4 years. The boots ($300) and gloves this May ($300) was and will be a bit harder to swallow, but I happen to like my hands and feet, scrawny as they are.
Ill take the risk...i have pretty decent gloves and they deff didnt cost me that much...I could use a new helmet tho...so maybe if i sold the old one and the old jacket i can put some money towards new ones in the future since i wont be gettin another bike till next year in the least since im leaving for bootcamp in june or july hopefully...
No not really...ive tipped my bike over in the drive way a couple times when i was first startin out...the only othe thing was in A bay when some lady tried to run me over but i had just started my turn and decided to dump my bike rather then get hit...but nothing major...i watched a kid die tho getting hit by a van head on at 65 mph and ive seen every single one of my friends go down...they are all stunters tho and thats bound to happen...
Speaking of helmets. A dealer has a new Shoei RF1000 made in 06/07 selling for 275 bucks. I offered 150 since its only got 2 years left of useful like. They said 250 is best they can do since its cost price. What do you think? How do even dealers sell old ass helmets like that. The rule is helmets have 7 year shelf life and 5 year usage life.
Who is going to pay 275 sticker price for a helmet made in 2007?
Thanks for that info about cleaning the carb. Definitely seems like less of a task than I had thought.
As far as gear, I don't mean to sound like I'm not listening. I'm mostly just being a penny pincher cause I'm really excited about getting my first bike and riding. I definitely think it's worth the money to get a full set of gear. I'll have to figure out my budget and see how much extra I'm going to have after the upfront cost of the bike. What's the lowest I should look to spend on gear (Helmet, jacket, gloves, pants and boots)? What's a good site to look for this gear?
I'll have to figure out what to do with my boots at school (I'm in college, we don't get lockers). I still don't know about wearing the pants to school. Are most of them big enough to fit over some cargo shorts or jeans? I'm not sure what options I have for storing this stuff rather than getting some hard side saddles but to me that takes away the sporty look of the bike.
Although your college may not give lockers out to every student, you may find that there are storage areas available to you if you ask. Do you have a commuter lounge? The commuter lounge at my college had a few lockers available. There was also storage space available in the bio department for the bio majors. I'm sure the other departments had similar storage available for students in those majors. It can't hurt to ask around. Talk to the secretary at your department. If you explain that you ride a bike and wear full gear to protect yourself, but don't have a place to store it, they may be very accommodating. You may also strike out, but I wouldn't count out the possibility without checking into it. Proper gear is bulky and won't fit neatly into a backpack, but, for me, the hassle is worth the protection that it affords.
LMAO at the "I'll ride it slow" fodder. Just what is the point of riding a 600cc rr bike slow?
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