Scooter rider looking to get a 1st bike...Bonneville vs. 600RR???

[CafeRacerKid]

I have been wanting a motorcycle for the longest time. I almost bought a 2004 R6 when they first came out, but then decided against it because I was transfering to a new college and needed the money. About 3 months ago I saw a good deal on a scooter (Bajaj Chetak 4-speed 150cc...it looks like a '70's Vespa knock-off) and decided to buy it. I threw some white walls on it...made it look kinda vintage etc...it's all fun...but I want to move up to a motorcycle. I'm very confused as to what bike I should get. I like the look of the 2004 Triumph Bonneville T100...looks like a vintage cafe racer...plus you could customize it to make it look really cool (drop bars..seat hump etc). It only has around 60-70hp...nice easy riding position etc, the problem is that it costs around $8k otd, and who knows if I'll get bored of it in a few months and want the 600RR. Now...my dream sportbike would be a Ducati, but they are way out of my price range. I'm in love with the Honda 600RR (same price as Bonnie too), but I am not sure if it would be good for a beginner. On the one hand...it would be a hell of a lot more stable on the road compared to my scooter...but the power...riding position etc make me a little nervous. I'm definitely not an idiot...I'm not looking to go crazy on the bike. I mainly want to commute to school...hit the twisties (very carefully and slowly) ocassionally...and cruise. What do you guys think?

I have fallen in love with being on two wheels (even though it's only a scooter). Being able to pull up to a store...jump off and go in is FUCKING AWESOME (I go to UCLA...parking does not exist here). After a bad day of class, crusing home is great...I love the wind...the smells...the people. However, every once in awhile I get the thought in my head that I could really get fucked up...or even die if I (or someone else) makes a mistake...and that freaks me out. Does/Did anyone have those thoughts??

[RACER X]

Why buy a smaller, used bike first and then work your way up to the larger and/or more powerful bike?
This question seems to get debated ad-nauseum on internet discussion sites so I thought I'd put together my thoughts about it... take it or leave it, this advice is genuinely offered if you are in the position of starting motorcycling.

Many people view Harleys and other cruisers as proper bikes. Big 1000cc 1200cc bikes - "men's bikes"!! Or maybe the fastest bike ever, a Hayabusa 1300cc rocketship - woah, now that's a "real bike". So, a 600cc "crotch rocket" would be half the size and therefore a kid's bike - ideal for a learner obviously... Wrong - don't even go there. The big four manufacturers fight over that lucrative market like hungry hyenas, making beautiful shiny (virtually) race ready sportbikes that few new riders can resist.

So they innocently ask "which is the best 600cc bike to learn on?".

Comparing 600cc sportbikes as starter bikes is daft. They all have twice the power and a much much higher top speed than a cruiser. Some may be tamer than others but the basic premise of a middleweight sportbike is all wrong for learning motorcycle skills. The ergonomics are out and out dangerous for a newbie on the street ( reaching for clip ons, rear-set pegs, craning neck up in traffic, restricted turning circle etc etc..) and the power's too much. It's better to focus on a smaller displacement 'standard' bike. They are set up for more compliant handling and ride and they are more comfortable, an important point while you're learning.

Take the pressure off - get a starter bike to start on.

Accidents happen mostly between 6th month and 3rd year of riding so learn on something you won't be so upset about when you drop it.

A less powerful bike will not punish you so badly for jerking the throttle like a newbie.

Smaller and lighter bikes are easier to handle. There's a lot to think about until you're comfortable about turning, stopping, gearchanging acceleration.

The value of a smaller bike, eg a 250, is learning to get the performance out of them - it really teaches you to ride to the bike's and your own potential. A 250, 350, 400 might seem small to you at first, but think of it as a step in the journey, learn to wring it's neck and be a better rider in the long run.

Regardless of power and speed, it's a good idea for new riders to geta bike that allows both feet to be placed flat on the ground. This tends to inspire confidence and will eliminate a lot of concern about dropping the bike. Undeniably, the slow parking lot type manoevers are the trickiest for a new rider, and being able to put your feet down really helps.

Smaller bikes are also usually lighter - weight can be a big deal in gaining confidence on the first bike.

Starting on a faster bike makes learning proper brake technique harder. Most new riders cannot judge how to use brakes effectively, intuition tells us that using the front brake will "flip" the bike or make the tire slide out. It's common for new riders to thus make the mistake of depending on the rear brake and the faster you are going the deadlier it can be.

Insurance rates are much higher for the larger more powerful bikes.

What if you don't like riding? Used bikes don't depreciate as quickly as new bikes so you'll lose out less when you sell it.

If you buy a cheaper bike, you'll be able to afford better quality protective gear: Minumum should be full face helmet, Leather jacket, gloves, boots and leather pants (yes - leather pants: studies show the majority of injuries to bikers are lower body injuries). Also, wear all your gear every time you ride, even if it's just a mile or two down to the shops.

Here's a selfish reason: I've been riding for many years and I don't want newbies who are out of their depth tarnishing the image of sportbike riders - yes other more experienced and immature riders do plenty of that too but law enforcement can spot a newbie on a sportbike just as easily as you or I can.

The desire for a larger bike is sometimes (often) a result of peer pressure. How you deal with what others think of you is your problem but if you decide on the sportbike because you want to fit in or because your buddies said so, then you need to think really seriously about that.

Most expert riders recommend learning on a smaller bike as the safer route.

If you ask an experienced rider's opinion, find out from them: how experienced they are, exactly what they started on and what kind of riding they do. Me, I've ridden streetbikes for 28 years and half that time on sportbikes. I started on a Yamaha RD250 two-stroke.

The salesman at the bike showroom should NEVER be considered an experienced or expert rider in this matter. Whatever he says, take it with a pinch of salt, especially if it would seem to be helping him with a sale.

Newbies on powerful sportbikes look a LOT funnier wobbling round turns than newbies on smaller bikes.

Some people claim proudly ...I survived as a litre bike newbie... having got a big bad sportbike as their first bike and six months later, they're still around to talk about it. That's great but they were/are beating the odds and playing a high stakes game - the stake they are risking is their health or even their life. It's not really that wonderful. The other thing is, it's usually quite easy to spot the ones who started on bigger bikes - uncomfortable looking on the bike, less fluid on twisty roads, more focused on straightline speed than form, and quite embarrassing to watch at less than 5mph speeds.

This is not from my own experience, but many riders have said that motorcyclists who learn first on dirtbikes end up as better riders when they transition to streetbikes. This I think is a lot to do with throttle control, balance and learning far more about the limits of tire traction. So consider going that route first. MSF now runs Dirt Bike Schools for beginners.

A used bike will teach you about motorcycle maintainance, something every rider should at least know the basics of. It's less likely you'll want to get your hands dirty on a newer or more high-tech model.

Whichever bike you have decided on, try doing the basic Motorcycle Safety Foundation training course course BEFORE you commit to a bike. The MSF lend you a small displacement bike to start on and the time you spend riding that may help you with your decision. If you're outside the USA, take a look at these training links and see if you can find a local class.

[CafeRacerKid]

Thanks for your advice...

What kinda standard bikes do you recommend learning on?? I have no problem getting a small bike...but I also wanna buy something that I WANT...ya know?? Something that is not too harsh on the eyes...something I can make look good...ya know? I sometimes see those old standard bikes being ridden by those guys with the messed up helmets...rust everywhere...trashbags attached to the bike with bungee cords etc...I dont want to be that guy...haha. Do you think maybe a '70s Honda?? 550 Four...something like that??

[RACER X]

think of it this way, was your first car your dream car? prolly not.......

get a small cc begineer bike, learn to ride, ride for a yr or 2, then get the bike you want. they will still be out there..faster and better then when you first got into motorcycling........

kawi ex500 or ex250
suzi gs500

[mercutio80]

The Bonneville would be much better than the CBR as a first bike. I test rode a T100 a few months ago and may pick one up in the next year or so. It's a great, fun bike.

It may still be too much for a relative newbie, though. Have you taken the MSF course yet? That'll give you an idea of your skill.

[RayOSV]

Originally Posted by CafeRacerKid

snip..

I have fallen in love with being on two wheels (even though it's only a scooter). Being able to pull up to a store...jump off and go in is FUCKING AWESOME (I go to UCLA...parking does not exist here). After a bad day of class, crusing home is great...I love the wind...the smells...the people. However, every once in awhile I get the thought in my head that I could really get fucked up...or even die if I (or someone else) makes a mistake...and that freaks me out. Does/Did anyone have those thoughts??

Others have dealt with the "first bike" issue, so I won't.

SO CAL is bike heaven so I understand why you want one. Take the MSF course ASAP. They will help you understand how right you are with your last comment. You need to learn how to survive in LA traffic. Ride like every other vehicle out there doesn't see you at best and doesn't care if they take you out at worst.

[Hagios]

Give the kid some credit. Ask, first, what scooter he's riding. If it was, say, a Burgman or a Silverwing, then a 600ss might not be too out of the picture, I'd think. But you guys know best, after all.

[Reckless01]

well i agree with RacerX on the points of starting smaller, and the points of the 600cc bikes being VERY powerful bikes.....CafeRacer my best advice to you is look for a good used EX250 or EX500, the EX500 will run about 130mph which is WAAAAY more than you will ever need on the street.....however it will give you the feel for the sportbikes...the cornering ability the stopping ability etc.....the EX bikes are GREAT learners and they are VERY inexpensive to obtain and maintain. PLUS....if you drop a 1998 EX250 by accident you wont be kicking yourself 1/2 as hard as you would if you dropped the 05' 600RR you still owe 7k on. For what its worth you will be in the saddle a LONG time before YOU have the ability to outride the EX500's capabilitys....plus they look pretty kool with the fairings....and you can mod them to make em faster just my opinion but once you are in the saddle for a year or so on the EX500 or 250 you will be ready....truly ready to graduate...you being in college know you dont start your 1st day of med school and then the next day perform an operation......same with bikes, you have to gain REAL experience....good idea asking most guys your age would just buy an 04' gixxer 1k because "its kool lookin". And after the Testosterone induced drag race or wheelie that got away from them and they are in a wheelchair for life or worse...then they realize we were just talking from experience and not to be on a high horse good luck in whatever you choose, just choose carefully.

[mercutio80]

Ask, first, what scooter he's riding.

About 3 months ago I saw a good deal on a scooter (Bajaj Chetak 4-speed 150cc...it looks like a '70's Vespa knock-off) and decided to buy it.

Read, first, the thread.

[gpTT]

I think the Triumph T100 Bonneville would make a great first bike. The horsepower is similar to the Ninja 500 (a benchmark beginner's sportbike). Riding position and frame geometry is probably even better for newbies, since it is a standard. It is heavier by about 40lbs, but not so heavy to be a problem. From what you've said about what you like about riding, I'd say the Triumph will fit you just fine.

On the minus side, it's expensive for a starter bike, and I'd hate to scuff the pretty thing up.

[badbowtie]

I can agree with Racer X enough. i have been riding for almost 3 months now. i bought an ninja 500R (ex500) it a 2000 so it new enough that i didnt have to rebuil it to ride but it does need some work.
looks great, handle nicely, brakes really well. and the power is addicting. Its got enough power under 6000 rpm to drive normally on the street but once over 6000 approx it starts to build power nicely. it wont do power up wheelies by accident but it can be made to whellie if you clutch it up.
in conclusion im so glad i bought this bike. i cant imagine if i bought a 600 SS how hard it would be to learn on.

[gsr1379]

I just picked up a suzi gs500 91 for 400 bucks needs some work but great bike to learn on just look for deals check out cycle trader