Good beginners bikes with ABS?

[moto44]

I must admit to getting a chuckle out of the opening post. I'm tempted to respond with something like, "You might want to be sure to get a rollcage with that ABS while you're at it."

But I realize that as a newcomer with a legitimate interest in motorcycles, you have certainly heard all of the horror stories and are interested in taking the necessary precautions. Nothing wrong with that. As safety concerns go, I would suggest that concentrating on your riding skills is immeasurably more important than whether or not your bike has ABS.

Welcome to the club!

[Moon]

Originally Posted by Süsser Tod

Big dual purpose bikes are not very good first bikes. They are quite forgiving, that is true, but they have very high gravity centers, so they are not very good at low speed maneuvers, one of the problem areas for newbies.

The F650 GS is NOT a BIG DP bike compared to the Big GS, KTM, Aprillia etc.... Actually it is quite easy to ride, very forgiving even for a new rider and capable of zooming a twisty road or traveling X-country in comfort (especially compared to SS bikes) and a great commuter.

Besides most riders here probably have never ridden a bike w/ ABS. Push it on the "real world w/ constantly changing surfaces maybe it could help ya stay upright. Then its worth it!


BTW 2 of the 5 bikes I have are ABS equipped

[R1oldguy]

does ABS keep you from going over the handle bars when using the front brake?????













i joke of course

[McWhat]

Originally Posted by R1oldguy

does ABS keep you from going over the handle bars when using the front brake?????


i joke of course

Seriously... No... I almost threw myself off my bike testing the ABS function to see how well it worked... I stopped FAST.

[Goin Ape Nutz]

In Europe, where people ride their motorcycles year round more often than people do in the states, ABS is more typical on the bikes they sell. There are several models of bikes that have ABS in their European formats, but not in their stateside formats.

This would indicate there is a reason for ABS and it does have a usefulness. I personally would love to have a bike with ABS.

Just my random thoughts.

[Anthonyd5189]

A human CAN NOT do what ABS can.

Humans have been doing what ABS does the whole time before it came out. ABS simply releases then reapplies brake pressure once it senses the tire is locked.

Umm, No.... ABS doesn't do anything when a tire starts to slip. Thats traction control. I'm not sure know what ABS means, its Anti-Lock Brake Systems. ABS only keeps a tire from LOCKING UP, not SLIPPING!

Well when your front tire is locked....it's going to be sliding around. TC only works for rear tire...and is useless on motorcycles unless you're on a track. If you ever watch slow motion of ABS working it actually locks then unlocks then locks the tire again, just very fast allowing a drive to maintain directional control of the car under heavy braking.

How is it easier to ride? You're not going to notice an extra 3lbs (if that).

Agreed

NO! WRONG! DO NOT LOCK UP THE REAR AND LET IT GO! I REPEAT DO NOT LOCK UP THE REAR TIRE AND THEN LET GO!

He was talking about locking up the front...

If you lock up the front, let the brake go, then reapply.

Yep...and that's exactly what ABS does, so why not save your money and learn how to do it yourself?

[R1100S-Rider]

Humans have been doing what ABS does the whole time before it came out. ABS simply releases then reapplies brake pressure once it senses the tire is locked.

Yes, humans have been doing it before ABS came out. But you can't pull, and release the brake as fast as ABS, or to the maximum for road conditions like ABS can. A human does not now how hard he/she can pull the brakes to get maximum braking for the road conditions. The only way a person could out brake ABS, is in a controlled environment with dry ground. With ABS you can just slam on the brakes and not worry about falling down (at least you're straight up, and down, or don't hit anything) no matter the road conditions. And ABS does not come into affect until the wheels start locking up.

Yep...and that's exactly what ABS does, so why not save your money and learn how to do it yourself?

Because ABS does it a LOT better, faster, and to the max. Human just can't. Its not like it takes affect every time you hit the brakes, just when you start locking them up.

Scenario -

Lets say you are at a friend’s house. You rode your bike over to his/her place. A storm unexpectedly comes over and it starts to rain, and you HAVE to go home for some reason. So you leave their house and head home. About 5 miles till your house you come up on an intersection. Since its raining visibility is not as great is if it was a nice sunny day out. Well you are coming up to the intersection; you see a car wanting to take a left. You get ready just incase it cuts you off. Hand over the brake, ready to pull on it. Well, guess what. The car pulls out in front of you. You hit that brakes, and what happens. You fall over because you over-braked. Locked up the front, and rear brakes. And slide along the road with your bike and probably run into the car if the driver freaks out, figures what he/she just did and hits the brakes like a lot of people do.

Ok, now the same thing is going on. Its raining, visibility is bad, and you are coming up on he same intersection. A car wants to take a left turn. Again you get ready incase it does pull out in front of you, and of course it does. You hit the brakes, but since you've been riding for a long time, and know your bike you know not to pull the brakes too hard or you will fall over. Well, guess what. Of course you don't know where the maximum braking power is, and you run into the car and get seriously hurt.


And again with ABS. The car takes its left turn in front of you. You hit the brakes of everything its worth. The bike starts to jump up and down because its locking the front, then letting it down faster than any human can do, plus at the absolute maximum for the road conditions. The person driving the car figures out what they just did, and slams on the brakes. Coming to a halt right in front of you. But you stop (Or not. At least you bleed off a bit of speed so the impact wouldn't be so great.) Just before hitting the car...

Now with ABS you could just slam on the brakes and not worry about falling down, or the brakes locking. ABS can tell what the road conditions are, and brake to the absolute maximum for those road conditions and you don't lock up the brakes, and fall over... You can't do what ABS can period.

[F4sSprintST]

ABS is great, this is the 1st bike I've had with it.

BUT........I wouldn't really want to learn on a bike with ABS. I think you need to learn to use the brakes properly first

Now, the ABS is nice because it lets me ride harder and not worry about modulation


The ABS is nice in that you can just slam on the brakes in an emergency and not worry about modulating, so you can focus on maneuvering

[Anthonyd5189]

Originally Posted by R1100S-Rider

Scenario -

Lets say you are at a friend’s house. You rode your bike over to his/her place. A storm unexpectedly comes over and it starts to rain, and you HAVE to go home for some reason. So you leave their house and head home. About 5 miles till your house you come up on an intersection. Since its raining visibility is not as great is if it was a nice sunny day out. Well you are coming up to the intersection; you see a car wanting to take a left. You get ready just incase it cuts you off. Hand over the brake, ready to pull on it. Well, guess what. The car pulls out in front of you. You hit that brakes, and what happens. You fall over because you over-braked. Locked up the front, and rear brakes. And slide along the road with your bike and probably run into the car if the driver freaks out, figures what he/she just did and hits the brakes like a lot of people do.

Ok, now the same thing is going on. Its raining, visibility is bad, and you are coming up on he same intersection. A car wants to take a left turn. Again you get ready incase it does pull out in front of you, and of course it does. You hit the brakes, but since you've been riding for a long time, and know your bike you know not to pull the brakes too hard or you will fall over. Well, guess what. Of course you don't know where the maximum braking power is, and you run into the car and get seriously hurt.


And again with ABS. The car takes its left turn in front of you. You hit the brakes of everything its worth. The bike starts to jump up and down because its locking the front, then letting it down faster than any human can do, plus at the absolute maximum for the road conditions. The person driving the car figures out what they just did, and slams on the brakes. Coming to a halt right in front of you. But you stop (Or not. At least you bleed off a bit of speed so the impact wouldn't be so great.) Just before hitting the car...

Now with ABS you could just slam on the brakes and not worry about falling down, or the brakes locking. ABS can tell what the road conditions are, and brake to the absolute maximum for those road conditions and you don't lock up the brakes, and fall over... You can't do what ABS can period.

Yes and no...ABS will help a situation like that. But I have ridden in heavy rain/storms and had NO problem with braking. I drove a car for 2 years with no ABS, never had a problem with that either(even with snow/ice in the winter).

Also of course a human can't get on and off the brakes as fast as ABS does. What the human is SUPPOSED to do is get right on that threshold of the brakes locking...that's where the maximum braking is. If you know your bike, you know where that is.

[R1100S-Rider]

Originally Posted by Anthonyd5189

If you know your bike, you know where that is.

Yes, but in almost all situations when someone is in a "oh shit" situation. They are not going to think "Oh hey, don't grab the brakes for everthing they are worth because its gonna lock up the brakes, and I'll fall". They are going to grab the brakes for everything they are worth... And not think about it till its too late. ABS does the job for you. It doesn't mean you have bad braking skills. It just means you're getting a little extra help.

[Anthonyd5189]

That's why you practice...so when that "oh shit" moment comes, you know what to do. For example, with my flying, almost every time I'm out with an instructor sometime during the flight we do a "engine failure." I can rattle off every step in the engine failure check list and go through the flow in the cockpit like nothing. So when that "holy shit my engine just quit" moment comes, I know exactly what to do.

Same thing with braking, if you practice and build the muscle memory of where that sweet spot is, you'll have no problem getting there when you need to.

I'm not denying ABS helps, I'm just saying it's not necessary at all....especially cause the OP was looking for a beginner bike. Since no real beginner bikes come with ABS, he was REALLY limiting his options for a safe first bike by only picking from one's with ABS.

[Goin Ape Nutz]

Originally Posted by F4sSprintST

...
The ABS is nice in that you can just slam on the brakes in an emergency and not worry about modulating, so you can focus on maneuvering

the sentence before it aside, do you think ABS might make bikes safer across the board if they were to become an industry standard? If bike manufactures sold us the same bikes they make for the european market (air quality standards and such accounted for...), wouldn't they perceivably spend less money, make things safer, AND provide an improved product?

[Goin Ape Nutz]

guess my last question was too intellectual?


so...

wouldn't ABS on all bikes be frigin cool?