250/500 vs 600 - Another Newbie's Debate ***LONG

[islanderman7]

Hi guys. First off, I want to give you guys some background. My cousin and I have gain some interest in the sport bike community. Hes actually talked me out of buying a GTI after I graduate. So I plan on getting a bike around May of 08.

When we first looked at some Sport Bikes I felt like the Hayabusa was calling me out and I wanted that to be my first bike. Since I did not know much about bikes, I wanted to do some research and came across this forum.

A BIG THANKS to you veterans of this forum. I'm glad I found this forum because you guys have given me necessary logic and analogies from the stickies that I've officially decided to buy a used Ninja 250.

My cousin and I got into this debate on what our first bikes should be. I was telling him that I want to get a 250 as my first bike and right off the back he makes fun of me (expected). Mainly making fun of that being a small bike and slow, but I showed him how wrong he was thanks to IwakuniDiver He said he will buy me a jacket that has "Hello Kitty" on it lol. Oh well, as long as I have free $300 jacket to protect my skin.

Keep in mind were both new to sport bikes. My goal was to convince him into getting a 250 as a "first bike" instead of that 600. His arguments are based on the opinions of his experienced Navy friends (20-30yr olds) who own bikes. But I suspect that they are afraid to admit that buying the 600 was a poor choice. Anyways, they told him that a 250 is easy to learn on and that you will master that in a month. So he says that he will learn on that for about a month from a friend and will buy a 600 as his first bike. What worries me is that I do not think that is not enough time to LEARN how to be a good driver. So how many miles or months do you think that a Rookie should have under his belt (I hate asking for a time since its subjective)?

He was complaining about money too, but we established that money should not be a factor. However, I am stuck on what to say to his next argument since it was not covered by a sticky. He argues that a 250 and a 600 have a different FEEL. Granted. So he would rather get the FEEL for one bike than two.

I want him to see what I see. Errrr its so frustrating to try to convince him other wise.

***Cliffs***
Newbie at bikes.
Cousin wants a 600 for a first bike.
I'm trying to convince to get a 250.
I need a counter argument to: That both bikes have different feels and he want to learn the FEEL of one bike rather than two.

[UberGoober]

Please be sure not to select "Moderated Post" wen you post. That means I have to approve it before anyone else can see it. That isn't necessary.

[Aero540T]

If he's new to bikes he's not going to master anything in a month, especially if he gets a new 600cc...

[jeepcoma]

You've got some brains, good for you!

If he masters the bike in a month, good for him. He's the best motorcycle rider on the fact of the planet, ever. If you've gotten this far, that he's willing to start on a 250 for a month, I don't think there's really much more you can or should do. I think that after riding a 250 for a month, if he has any sense at all, he'll want to keep riding it rather than buying a new 600 right away. He'll have a month to get over his ego and realize he's not ready.

Plus, he's never ridden a bike. How the hell does he know how they feel, or which feels better? Why would he be willing to place his opinion based on no facts or experience above that of the people on this board, who say that a 250 has a better feel for a beginner?

[bush]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

I need a counter argument to: That both bikes have different feels and he want to learn the FEEL of one bike rather than two.

If your cousin had any idea what the fuck he was talking about, he would realize how stupid this sounds. The concepts behind riding are a learned skill that transfers relatively easily from bike to bike. The feel of the bike doesn't matter at all when compared to the skills possessed by the rider.

Transferring skills will come easier and sooner if he decides to learn on a suitable starter bike.

There's your counter argument.

[kenshi]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

However, I am stuck on what to say to his next argument since it was not covered by a sticky. He argues that a 250 and a 600 have a different FEEL. Granted. So he would rather get the FEEL for one bike than two.

That's freakin ridiculous. I've been riding dirt bikes (often on streets) for longer than sportbikes and they're similar enough to transfer skills. They do have significantly different ergonomics, but they work mostly the same way. Pretty much the only differences between 250 and 600 cc sportbikes are the weight and power.

I'm thinking after he rides the 250, he'll realize he doesn't yet belong on a 600.

[RayOSV]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

***Cliffs***
Newbie at bikes.
Cousin wants a 600 for a first bike.
I'm trying to convince to get a 250.
I need a counter argument to: That both bikes have different feels and he want to learn the FEEL of one bike rather than two.

The equivalent argument is that a Porsche has a different feel than a Focus. It's still better to learn how to drive on the streets in a Focus. Skills learned will transfer to the Porsche if and when you get one. A GTI is somewhere in between. A Ninja 250 is faster than the Focus, maybe on par with the GTI, but wouldn't keep up for long with the Porsche. A 600ss bike in the hands of a good rider will keep up with most Porsches on the drag strip or on a road course. A 600ss bike in the hands of an unskilled rider will take him from 0 to 60 in about 3 seconds and 0 to dead in less than 6 seconds.

[BuiltGypsy]

I'm facing the same arguement with a new rider at work. Only he wants to skip the 6's and go straight to an R1. It didn't help that the guys who rode cruisers said he'd be fine starting on a 750, or the guy who's never ridden a bike before period said a 600. I tried to point him in the direction of the Hyosung GT250R (he said looks were really important to him) but I was interrupted. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow.

I wish you the best of luck! And if that doesn't work, remember, he can't ride with broken wrists!

-Guy

[cixelsydruos]

what do you guys think about my friend wanting to go from a Honda Shadow VLX to a gsx-r600?

[Jim Moore]

Originally Posted by cixelsydruos

what do you guys think about my friend wanting to go from a Honda Shadow VLX to a gsx-r600?

If he has a year or so and several thousand miles, he should be OK. He is going to be absolutely horrified by the power of the Gixxer, but he'll figure it out.

[051000RR]

Man I give props to the OP for sticking his ground....What it seems like is that you are trying to arm yourself with the correct info to keep your cousin from making a very big mistake.....This refreshes my outlook on new riders, to see someone actually listen before jumping in. Search the forums for the good ol "Who started on a 1K, 600, etc. threads. Belive me there are plenty. You will find plenty of info for your arsenal when it come time to debate the issues with your cousin.......And last but not least, I would bet that you will be smoking your cousins ass if you start on a 250 and he gets a 600.......I have seen this many times....Your skills will improve to a point, much faster than him, that you will be able to wring the neck off that 250 while he is still shitting his pants due to the power of a new 6.....Keep your attitude and ride on!

[Little Joe]

So how many miles or months do you think that a Rookie should have under his belt (I hate asking for a time since its subjective)?

I've ridden 3,200 miles on my 250 and haven't come anywhere CLOSE to mastering it. I think by "mastering" a bike they mean that you get a little bored with the acceleration, which is true...if all you do is ride in a straight line. In the twisties though...

Ask him if he mastered driving a car in a month. Was he ready to jump into a Ferarri?

As far as "feel" goes: does one car "feel" different from another? yes. Do driving skills transfer from car to car? YES! I haven't ridden very many bikes, but the skills needed to operate any bike are the same.

Good choice on starting small, now get some gear and ride safe when you get your bike. AND TAKE THE MSF COURSE!

-Joe-

[islanderman7]

Thanks guys for your responses. I feel dumb for not thinking that skills transfer over easily... oh well.

Anyways, my cousin is firm on buying a 600 for his first bike. I guess the only way to learn... is the hard way (hopefully not fatally). It is like when my parents told me not to get a girlfriend in High School and to wait until I finish College. I should have listened to my parents because the drama messed me up academically during my freshman year in College. But I know now what they were trying to prevent from happening. It sucks that the best lesson in life are taught through experience, but w/ bikes you don't have many chances.

[RayOSV]

A smart person learns from their mistakes. A very smart person learns from the mistakes of others. An idiot keeps doing the same dumb things expecting different results.

[MwKid19]

Originally Posted by RayOSV

A smart person learns from their mistakes. A very smart person learns from the mistakes of others. An idiot keeps doing the same dumb things expecting different results.

You my friend, could not have said it better.