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New Rider ForumsJust joining the motorcyclist hobbie? Looking to get some information about a first bike? Or have some newbie questions. Are you new to the website?
Introduction
The purpose of this writeup is to compare the difference between starting on a 500cc bike versus a sportier 650cc bike. Everybody knows starting on a smaller bike is better. I also know that there are a lot of people that are debating starting on a 650cc such as the Ninja 650 or the SV650. Understandably, a 650 is not a horrible starter bike like a 600cc supersport (SS) and many riders have started successfully on a 650, but it is still a lot of bike with all the modern goodies and handling of an SS. I have been surfing bike forums and reading all the advise given to new riders, and I can confidently say that each forum has a different level of confidence for newer riders. In this forum, I am praised for fending new riders off anything larger than 600cc. On my local forum, I am gawked at for giving the same advice of starting small, buying used--even called lame at times.
Background
At the time of writing this article, I have had just over 600 miles under my belt. This does not in any way qualify me as an experienced rider, but allows me to give you a new rider's perspective on starting on either bike. I started my biking by taking a top-rated safety riding course in Canada where I learned to ride on a 200cc dual-sport, bought a 500 shortly after, and rode it for 300 miles. Then I found a hot deal on an SV650s that I could not pass up so I bought it and have since put 300 miles on that bike too. I am 5' 5" and 120 lbs soaking wet. My inseam height is 29". Yeah I am short and small, so here it goes.
Ninja 500
The Ride
The Ninja 500 felt heavy when I first took it out. But the seat height gave me confidence that I can manage the bike when stopped. The suspension is soft and comfortable allowing you to take the wrong riding path, hit bumps, and not accidentally blip the throttle, which easily happens when you have a death grip on the controls as a new rider. Till today, the death grip is still a very hard habit to break. The riding position is excellent because you are sitting upright enough to not need your knees to hug the gas tank to keep you upright. While riding, the bike is gentle and willing. It is very stable and easily leans over when you try to counter-steer. I never had the fear that I am leaning too much for the smaller tires. It also really helped me learn to counter-steer and get over the mental challenge of accepting counter-steering. It did not take me long to really start leaning into my turns as I got my confidence really quickly. Now let’s talk about power delivery. From idle all the way up to 5500 rpms, the bike gives smooth power delivery, is torquey, and gets you up to speed fast. You can abruptly twist the throttle or use it like an on/off switch and the bike will not do a wheelie on you. You won't even get a whiplash on any throttle mishaps below 5500 rpms. But the first time I hit past 5500 rpms, the bike’s torque really kicked in and I wasn’t expecting it. My left hand came off the handle bars momentarily and it scared the hell out of me. When I tried it the second time, I almost let go again. So that taught me the proper technique to grip the handlebars without giving it a death grip. Needless to say, this not so little 500 is fucking fast. I had a big smile on my face. In order to shift my bike into gears though, I found that I had to contort my foot in weird angles to get under the shifter. Then for downshifting, I was always depressing on both the shifter and the side stand. Kawi placed the sidestand in a stupid location and hitting it always pissed me off.
The Summary
The Ninja 500 is plenty powerful, lots of fun, easy to handle, extremely forgiving, and is good riding height for a short newbie. The bike is extremely gentle at low rpms, giving you lots of forgiving room to screw up. If ridden well, it is also fast enough to beat a higher-end sports car.
Suzuki SV650s
The Ride
My first impression of the bike was “wow, it’s smooth”. It’s like riding a ’69 GTO (Ninja 500) versus a modern day Acura (can you say “refined”?). The first time I took the bike out, I was amazed at how smooth the throttle controls were compared to the 500. I’m not sure if it’s because of the mechanics of the controls itself being better designed. The bike felt a lot lighter than the 500. The suspension is harder, but still forgiving. When I hit the bumps, the tendency to blip the throttle is more pronounced because of the smoother controls. What doesn’t help is that the riding position is very aggressive compared to the 500 forcing me to have a death grip on the controls. I’ve been consciously forcing myself to keep upright using my knees, but sometimes I forget. So I’ve been heaving lots of sore backs and very very achy shoulders and wrists. I need to fix my riding position soon. The riding height itself is very high. It feels like you’re sitting above cars and it’s a good feeling because you can see more. The side mirrors are also better than the little 500, allowing you to see more behind you. Note that seeing “more” behind is subjective on sportbikes. You can barely see much to begin with. This bike is also willing and able in the turns, but it prefers to stay upright a bit more. Now to the power delivery. I found the throttle can be very “twitchy”. Controlling the throttle was not easy at all as the bike has a lot of torque and a lot of engine breaking. Very minor inputs can make the bike lurch forward so you have to be extremely careful during turns not to play too much with the throttle and upsetting the suspension. It also feels like if you use the throttle like an on/off switch, the bike will do a wheelie on you. There’s so much power in the bike. Lesson #1 on this bike is to train your brain to constantly be smooth on the throttle. However, when compared to the Ninja, you don’t get a power surge at an arbitrary rpm like the 500 (i.e. 5500 rpms). The power is all there from idle on. But because I learned how to grip the bike somewhat properly, the power from the 650 didn’t scare me or surprise me. Had I not started on the 500, I think there was a potential for me to have “lost it” while accelerating hard. The gear shifter is in a much better position (for me) on this bike. It’s more natural to my riding position, though mis-shifts seem to happen more frequently on the 650. I think I just need more miles to get it figured out. Also it is too easy to speed on the 650. You’re just riding at what you feel is a good speed, but when you look down, you’re riding 60mph on a 35mph road. The 500 was always obedient because you felt as fast as you were going. The smoothness of the 650 can be deceiving.
Another thing to watch out for on the SV650s are the brakes. The brakes on the 500 were weak, but if you squeeze it hard, you will come to a stop in a hurry without very much nose-drive. Try doing the same thing on the SV and you are either doing an endo/stoppie or skidding your rear tires. Lesson #2 is to learn proper modulation of the brake controls. Lots of emergency stop practice is required to get used to the controls. I have had to stop hard before, but always when I was expecting to and had my hands ready. But on one ride, I wasn't expecting a pedestrian to jump out at me so I grabbed a handful of brakes and stomped on the rear brakes. I left a nice snake trail from locking up the rear wheels and stopped a mere 3 feet from the pedestrian. I should have been able to stop sooner because I know my car could have. But poor control put me in a vulnerable zone.
Lesson #3 is to not ride around in first gear with only one hand on the handlebars. I was scooting around at a local family park at the posted speed limit of 15 mph with one hand on the throttle and the other hand I think was scratching my nose from an itch. What I didn't see was a gentle dip on the road up ahead. When I hit that gentle dip, my hands opened the throttle abruptly for 1/8 of a turn, felt like I was going to do a wheelie, and gave myself a nasty whiplash. That was the first time I have said to myself, "Holy shit, that was fucking scary." And yes, I did it again once more on that same ride (riding around in 1st with one hand) and almost scarred myself silly.
The Summary
The SV650 is more than a handful of power. Maybe too much for a newbie like me. The bike itself though is so very smooth and refined. But I had not dropped the 500 at all while riding and the first day I took my SV out, I dropped it at a stop after filling the tank up full of gas. The bike just leaned over and I couldn’t stop it so I had to gently lay it down. No scratches on the bike though. Plus the bike feels topside heavier than the 500. Overall, once I have learned the mechanics of the bike, I enjoy the SV a lot more than the Ninja 500.
Conclusion
So there you go … my initial impressions of two bikes from a newbie rider with no experience. I know that I’m in no way qualified enough to even recommend which bike is better, but I gave you a very honest account of my feelings on these bikes as a rider with no riding experience. Too many times, I’ve read reviews of guys who have been on a 250/500 for 6000+ miles and then transitioned over to 650 or SS and give their reviews. By then, they’re pretty competent riders. This way, I can show you from a newbie perspective how both bikes felt to me. In my honest opinion, I do not think a 650cc bike is a very good beginner bike. It's too easy to get somebody into trouble. The throttle and brakes are the two hardest things to master on this bike. There are plenty of starter bikes out there that are better than a 650cc and many of them look just as good, if not better. Look at Suzuki GS500, Kawasaki Ninja 250, Kawasaki Ninja 500, Hyosung GT250R, or Honda CBR125R (a very very hot bike).
Hope this is helpful for you. Feel free to ask me anymore questions about the bikes.
Last edited by donkeyman : 08-17-2007 at 10:31 AM.
Great review. It's nice to get the newbie perspective on things because the more experienced reviewers take a lot of things for granted, ya know? I've heard it said that a 650 is in the gray area of starter bike but the reasons that are given are usually sort of vague (at least for a newbie). Anyway, thanks for the insight and I'm sure it'll help a lot of people make a good choice on their first bike.
Posts: 534
Casino Cash: $1310
Sportbike: Soon to be 08 Ninja 250
Great write up, thanks
I had been originally set on a Ninja 650, but from reading more, I decided to just go with the 250, no matter the looks or anything of the sort. I am pretty sure I am going for a Ninja 250..but I may look into the UM's because I have not seen any Hyosung's around. Thanks again for the good read.
You're lame. j/k.
Good write up on your perspective. It also goes along with what I've said in some other threads about how the 250 and 500cc bikes really need to be improved mechanically instead of just redesigned for looks like the new GS500 and EX250... otherwise newbs will continue to think 600cc bikes are OK (notice i didn't say great) starter bikes.
__________________ FOR SALE: 05 Cerulean Silver FZ6, or trade for F4i. Located in NYC. PM if interested.
I recently purchased an SV650 from a friend cause it was the deal of the century. Anyways, I've always wanted the 250 and what do you know? The day after I purchase my bike, Kawi updates teh 250 design...
I know I won't learn as fast as on a 250, but I have 100/300k insurance, 2 sets of full gear (jackets, pants, boots, gloves, helments, etc). Wish me luck man. Start small.. I wish I did!
Want to start on a 650cc over a 500cc?
