SV650 for first bike?

[Boondox]

I test rode the SV650 and had no trouble handling it even though I'm new to street riding and only a tad over 5' tall. I just didn't like the V (love em or hate em, right?) and ended up with a Yamaha FZ6 which I absolutely love! So don't be intimidated by the SV650. It's plenty nimble and powerful, yet tame, has a wide powerband, forgiving suspension. I really don't think I'd have had a problem with it; you'll do fine.

Terri

[donkeyman]

Originally Posted by Boondox

I test rode the SV650 and had no trouble handling it even though I'm new to street riding and only a tad over 5' tall. I just didn't like the V (love em or hate em, right?) and ended up with a Yamaha FZ6 which I absolutely love! So don't be intimidated by the SV650. It's plenty nimble and powerful, yet tame, has a wide powerband, forgiving suspension. I really don't think I'd have had a problem with it; you'll do fine.

Terri

So do you come to a stop with just one foot? I can tiptoe both foot, but use only one when I stop so that I can flatfoot it.

[djeddiebear]

Originally Posted by paul1149

But you know that. Is there any way you can continue to ride the 250 for the rest of this season even after buying the SV?

I wish there was a way, but I wouldn't be able to get any serious mileage.

[Boondox]

Originally Posted by donkeyman

So do you come to a stop with just one foot? I can tiptoe both foot, but use only one when I stop so that I can flatfoot it.

Yes, left foot on the ground with a bit of lean. Right foot on the rear brake for stability. I find it easier given my height to avoid slow creeping stops. I roll to where I want to be, brake, lean and plant the foot. To go, the clutch lever is let out, gas on, rear brake off and the left foot on the peg instantly so I get my balance.

I've been riding the FZ6 for a week now and find it to be a remarkably easy ride once you nail the clutch friction zone. And now that I have a leather jacket I'm no longer bothered by bug hits down the cleavage! Life is too good.

Terri

[donkeyman]

Originally Posted by Boondox

Yes, left foot on the ground with a bit of lean. Right foot on the rear brake for stability. I find it easier given my height to avoid slow creeping stops. I roll to where I want to be, brake, lean and plant the foot. To go, the clutch lever is let out, gas on, rear brake off and the left foot on the peg instantly so I get my balance.

I've been riding the FZ6 for a week now and find it to be a remarkably easy ride once you nail the clutch friction zone. And now that I have a leather jacket I'm no longer bothered by bug hits down the cleavage! Life is too good.

Terri

I tried coming to a rolling stop earlier this week and ended up dropping the bike. Nothing got rashed other than a bit of the frame slider. But I think it was lack of attention rather than short legs. Tucking my leather pants into my boots made my inseam a lot shorter and therefore, down I went. LOL

[TemplarForGod]

^^^^ haha "Tucking my leather pants into my boots made my inseam a lot shorter and therefore, down I went" funny funny. sorry i have nothing to contribute just wanted to know u made my night.

[650r]

Originally Posted by donkeyman

I was going to do a writeup between the Ninja 500 and the SV650 as first bikes to give new riders some thoughts about starting on 650 versus the 500. I took a top-rated safety riding course in Canada, bought a 500 shortly after, rode the 500 for 500KM (300 miles), found a hot deal on an SV and bought it. I’ve ridden that SV for 100 miles and this writeup will summarize my 400 miles riding experience to you. I know that I have little (to none) experience in riding, but I think my points are valid from a new rider’s perspective. I am 5’ 5” and 125 pounds wet and have an inseam height of 29”. Yeah I’m small and short. So here goes…

The Ninja 500 felt heavy when I first got it. But the seat gave me confidence that I can manage the bike when stopped. The suspension is soft and comfortable allowing you to take the wrong riding path, hit bumps, and not accidentally blip the throttle, which easily happens when you have a death grip on the controls as a new rider. The riding position is excellent because you are sitting upright enough to not need your knees to hug the gas tank to keep you upright. While riding, the bike is gentle and willing. It is very stable and easily leans over when you try to counter-steer. It really helped me learn to counter-steer and get over the mental challenge of accepting counter-steering. It did not take me long to really start leaning into my turns as I got my confidence really quickly. Now let’s talk about power delivery. From idle all the way up to 5500 rpms, the bike gives smooth power delivery, is torquey, and gets you up to speed fast. You can abruptly twist the throttle or use it like an on/off switch and the bike will not do a wheelie on you. But the first time I hit past 5500 rpms, the bike’s torque really kicked in and I wasn’t expecting it. My left hand came off the handle bars momentarily and it scared the hell out of me. When I tried it the second time, I almost let go again. So that taught me the proper technique to grip the handlebars without giving it a death grip. Needless to say, this not so little 500 is fucking fast. I had a big smile on my face. In order to shift my bike into gears though, I found that I had to contort my foot in weird angles to get under the shifter. Then for downshifting, I was always depressing on both the shifter and the side stand. Kawi placed the sidestand in a stupid location and hitting it always pissed me off.

Summary: The Ninja 500 is plenty powerful, lots of fun, easy to handle, extremely forgiving, and is good riding height for a newbie.

Then I moved onto the SV650. My first impression of the bike was “wow, it’s smooth”. It’s like riding a ’69 GTO versus a modern day Acura (can you say “refined”?). The first time I took the bike out, I was amazed at how smooth the throttle controls were compared to the 500. I’m not sure if it’s because of the mechanics of the controls itself being better designed. The bike felt a little bit lighter than the 500. The suspension is harder, but still forgiving. When I hit the bumps, the tendency to blip the throttle is more pronounced because of the smoother controls. What doesn’t help is that the riding position is very aggressive compared to the 500 forcing me to have a death grip on the controls. I’ve been consciously forcing myself to keep upright using my knees, but sometimes I forget. So I’ve been heaving lots of sore backs and very very achy shoulders and palms. I need to fix my riding position soon. The riding height itself is very high. It feels like you’re sitting above cars and it’s a good feeling because you can see more. The side mirrors are also better than the little 500, allowing you to see more behind you. Note that seeing “more” behind is subjective on sportbikes. You can barely see much to begin with. This bike is also willing and able in the turns, but it prefers to stay upright a bit more. Now to the power delivery. I found the throttle can be quite “twitchy”. Very minor inputs can make the bike lurch forward so you have to be extremely careful during turns not to play too much with the throttle. It also feels like if you use the throttle like an on/off switch, the bike will do a wheelie on you. There’s so much power in the bike. However, when compared to the Ninja, you don’t get a power surge at an arbitrary rpm like the 500 (i.e. 5500 rpms). The power is all there from idle on. But because I learned how to grip the bike somewhat properly, the power from the 650 didn’t scare me or surprise me. Had I not started on the 500, I think there was a potential for me to have “lost it” while accelerating hard. The gear shifter is in a much better position (for me) on this bike. It’s more natural to my riding position, though mis-shifts seem to happen more frequently on the 650. I think I just need more miles to get it figured out. Also it is too easy to speed on the 650. You’re just riding at what you feel is a good speed, but when you look down, you’re riding 60mph on a 35mph road. The 500 was always obedient because you felt as fast as you were going. The smoothness of the 650 can be deceiving.

Summary: The SV650 is more than a handful of power. Maybe too much for a newbie like me. The bike itself though is so very smooth and refined. But I had not dropped the 500 at all while riding and the first day I took my 650 out, I dropped it at a stop. The bike just leaned over and I couldn’t stop it. Had I given at least another 2000 miles more on the 500, I think I wouldn’t have done that. Plus the bike feels topside heavier than the 500.

So there you go … my initial impressions of two bikes from a newbie rider with no experience. I know that I’m in no way qualified enough to even recommend which bike is better, but I gave you a very honest account of my feelings on these bikes as a rider with no riding experience. Too many times, I’ve read reviews of guys who have been on a 250/500 for 6000+ miles and then transitioned over to 650 or SS and give their reviews. By then, they’re pretty competent riders. This way, I can show you from a newbie perspective how both bikes felt to me. Hope this is helpful for you. Feel free to ask me anymore questions about the bikes.

curious....why not compare the 650r vs. SV650?

[donkeyman]

Originally Posted by 650r

curious....why not compare the 650r vs. SV650?

There's lots of comparisons between these two on the web. My intention was to give somebody who knows about and wants to start small with a 250/500, but either can't find one or found a really great deal on a 650. Also, many people have started on 250/500 or 650 as their first bikes and are pleased with their decisions. But how many of them have started on both a 250/500 AND 650?

[Oni]

I have all three in the garage. 250, 500, SV650. I spent six months on a 250, followed a couple of years on a 500. The last year + on the SV650. I don't recommended it as a first bike. It's a great all-around bike, but I don't feel that I would have learned nearly as much.

[mike honcho]

i'm sure you can find a small bike for under a grand, take that back, well under a grand. Look at buell blasts. They aren't the best looking bikes ever, but dropping an sv is still more embarassing than riding a blast.

[Joe H]

Buy the SV if the price is that good.

[donkeyman]

Originally Posted by Oni

I have all three in the garage. 250, 500, SV650. I spent six months on a 250, followed a couple of years on a 500. The last year + on the SV650. I don't recommended it as a first bike. It's a great all-around bike, but I don't feel that I would have learned nearly as much.

Please elaborate on which areas you don't think you would have learned as much. Is it throttle control, braking, counter steering, low-speed maneuvers, collision avoidance, wheeling, stoppies? Maybe new riders could use this list to learn those harder skills on a smaller bike, but learn the rest on the SV.

[phoenixdown318]

my SV650S is my first bike and i dont feel its overpowering. I've had the chance to ride on friends and families motorcycles and I was really comfortable with how the SV650 felt for me. To each his own i guess. Just sit on it see how it feels... since its your friend im sure he wouldnt mind brining it to a parking lot where you can test it out to see if it would be too much to handle for you.

[TS80]

Originally Posted by donkeyman

Please elaborate on which areas you don't think you would have learned as much. Is it throttle control, braking, counter steering, low-speed maneuvers, collision avoidance, wheeling, stoppies? Maybe new riders could use this list to learn those harder skills on a smaller bike, but learn the rest on the SV.

All those things you mentioned are very very very basic. You could learn most of them on the biggest bike. Learning them well is the issue. The issues with bigger bikes are power (throttle control) and the suspension (too good).

Not so much throttle control, but throttle feel. Unfortunately, you can only learn that through doing it correctly and feel.

When you get it right, the bike feels planted and secure. But the better the suspension, the less you feel, you can screw up more and not know it with a better bike. Although the bike hides your mistakes, those mistakes are still being made and traction is still being used up.

Throttle control and feel is VERY important to cornering a motorcycle well and safely. You have to maintain the correct amount of throttle on each part of a turn. It's not simply "roll on", "roll off", "steady", or anything in between. There is no simple rule or equation to follow. Your throttle controls weight distribution and steering geometry. Off throttle adds weight to the front and shortens the front steering geometry (reducing rake and trail), it also reduces traction at the rear at the expense of a quicker turn-in. Roll on can help you achieve maximum traction and the chassis is most stable, a 40/60 weight distribution is recommended by many (including Code and Parks). Then there is steady throttle, mainly used to arrest lean angle, depending on the corner, this is implemented at different areas of a turn.

That's a very brief and undetailed explanation. But you can see how too much, too little, or steady throttle can be good or bad.

It only takes a tiny twist or too little twist of the throttle to really screw up your corner. Imagine trying to go from off throttle to 40/60 when you have tons of power.

Imagine playing one of those shooting games and your mouse is too sensitive. That's the problem with powerful bikes as a first bike. You always undershoot or overshoot the target.

Just the knowledge is not enough either. You can read all you want, but it might not help. There is no gauge on your bike that tells you how much throttle to give or when you're off. You have to know how it feels. IMO, too much power and too good a suspension are the faults of bigger bikes. The great suspension, although perfect and helpful to an experienced rider, it tends to have a negative effect that feels like a positive one to a new rider.

That new rider can make mistakes and it'll feel stable and fine. But it's not, just because you feel in control does not mean the tires are any different. Traction is still being used up when it doesn't need to be. You're not in control although it feels like you are. But since it feels fine, you keep doing it thinking that your technique is fine. Great bikes build bad habits for a new rider.

It takes time and mileage on a "good enough" bike to be able to really know how to ride a "great" bike.

The SV650 seems to be in the middle. It'll still tell you when you screwed up, but a 250/500 is better. It has a lot of power, but it's predictable. I would not suggest an SV650 to a new rider.

It's kind of in between the 500 and the 600. For a first bike, not as good as a 250/500, but not as terrible as a 600. Still not recommended though.

[bush]

I don't recommend an SV650 either. While it doesn't have the surge of power at high RPM that an I4 does, it's still a powerful bike for a beginner. At this stage of your riding career, you need to focus more on building good habits without worrying about getting in over your head on a bike with that kind of power.