Need a lot of advice with first bike purchase.

[Lewd Ferrigno]

Originally Posted by R.Brosnan

It's nothing too exciting. He asked how many professional racers had a motocross background and it turned out the list is rather long and illustrious. I'm sure the thread still exists somewhere, but I have no idea where.

And again, they all started small when they made the transition. It wasn't "I rode MX, so I'm an awesome racer" they had a learning curve like the rest of us.

Scott Russell being the exception.

[Lewd Ferrigno]

Originally Posted by R.Brosnan

Mat Mladin, Troy Corser, Troy Bayliss, the three Gobert brothers, Aaron Yates, Scott Russell, et al. might disagree. Sure they never would have been so sucessful without immense natural talent, but is there a similar list of people with no riding experience who met with such instant success? Yeah there's Max Biaggi, but a list of one is pretty sad.

At least you say there's a kind of dirt riding that helps; I could never get Fargin to admit that.

One more time here, ace.

Dirt riding doesn't directly transfer to street. Saying you have a leg up because of dirt experience is not correct.

Let me phrase it this way, could a good dirt rider be a bad street rider? I can also prove this with the illustrious list of major championship winning MX riders that won championships in Road Racing.

[R.Brosnan]

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

Read the sentence again.

I wasn't being sarcastic. You did in fact learn something, something which caused you to place an additional qualifier on your question this time.

[Lewd Ferrigno]

Originally Posted by R.Brosnan

I wasn't being sarcastic. You did in fact learn something, something which caused you to place an additional qualifier on your question this time.

What I am looking for is an empirical qualification of your view. The reason I put that in is that those examples started from small race bikes and learned the craft. Your implication is that MX made them better racers. My implication is natural progression, talent and learning through moving up classes made them better racers.

[R.Brosnan]

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

Dirt riding doesn't directly transfer to street. Saying you have a leg up because of dirt experience is not correct.

Saying it again and again won't make it true. You do good work in here letting people know what the studies say about riding. Why don't you let the people know what the only study to mention it says about dirt experience?

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

Let me phrase it this way, could a good dirt rider be a bad street rider? I can also prove this with the illustrious list of major championship winning MX riders that won championships in Road Racing.

I like your use of the word major. It's a great way of ignoring the Australians.

[R.Brosnan]

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

What I am looking for is an empirical qualification of your view. The reason I put that in is that those examples started from small race bikes and learned the craft. Your implication is that MX made them better racers. My implication is natural progression, talent and learning through moving up classes made them better racers.

I agree that starting small is the way to go regardless of dirt experience. Arguing about that would just be stupid, even if I do have an example of a dirt rider who hopped straight onto a big bike.

[jk750]

Actually, I read an interview with Mladin a long time ago (2002) where he stated how different the two disciplines really are (MX and road). He was talking about how the Haydens benefited from dirt track experience, whereas he had to overcome MX habits.

Hayden was the last US pavement Champion to come from a dirt track background. I don't know who was the last US pavement Champion to come from an MX background. Mat Mladin, Troy Corser, Troy Bayliss and the rest began their pavement riding and racing on small bikes, as Fargin stated.
And none of them were MX Champions.

Anyway, the cream of the crop always rises and the top professionals seem to excel in various forms of two wheeled racing.

For the average rider, MX and Street are two divergent styles. They don't directly interchange.

[Lewd Ferrigno]

Originally Posted by R.Brosnan

Saying it again and again won't make it true. You do good work in here letting people know what the studies say about riding. Why don't you let the people know what the only study to mention it says about dirt experience?

the one item in the Hurt report that is outdated, sure bring it up.

That also doesn't include the fact that dirt riding in that era was far different from dirt riding technique in this era. Dirt bikes then were essentially street bikes and modern MX track configurations didn't exist.

One more thing, dirt racing in that period was far more like TT style dirt tracking, which can directly transfer to roadracing, but doesn't mean anything on the street. Also, no one does it anymore.

One other thing, Nicky Hayden is SUFFERING his background right now, as road bikes become more about corner speed.

Originally Posted by R.Brosnan

I like your use of the word major. It's a great way of ignoring the Australians.

No, MX is an international sport, right? Are there not international riders racing in AMA Supercross?

[Lewd Ferrigno]

Quoting Mat Mladin:

The AMA has scheduled the Hangtown event in Sacramento on the same weekend as the Superbike event in Sonoma. What do you see as being the big difference between two sides of motorcycle racing?

MM: The main similarities are that they’re both motorcycles and they’ve got two wheels. That’s about it. I’ve done both on a professional side, including motocross in my early days, but they’re very, very different.

He has to be wrong, I mean he's done it.

Linkee

[Lewd Ferrigno]

My point is that Dirt riding is not the magic key to road riding that everyone acts like it is.

You have to learn from scratch if you start street riding and you should treat it as such.

[R.Brosnan]

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

the one item in the Hurt report that is outdated, sure bring it up.

That also doesn't include the fact that dirt riding in that era was far different from dirt riding technique in this era. Dirt bikes then were essentially street bikes and modern MX track configurations didn't exist.

One more thing, dirt racing in that period was far more like TT style dirt tracking, which can directly transfer to roadracing, but doesn't mean anything on the street. Also, no one does it anymore.

Oh god, do we really have to go through this again? Here, I'll do both our parts: F:"Dirt bikes were basically street bikes" R:"Not since the 60s, they weren't" F:"They didn't have long travel suspension or knobbies" R:"They were in the second generation of long travel suspension, and they had knobbies back when dirt bikes were still modified street bikes" F:"They were still very different from modern bikes and demanded a different style" R:"What if you ride hare scrambles, or enduros, or desert, or just trail ride today?" F:"Still doesn't count. Because." R:"Dude, Roberts ranch, XR100s, knobbies. 2 Kenny Freakin Robertses" F:"Nope"

That about cover it?

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

No, MX is an international sport, right? Are there not international riders racing in AMA Supercross?

Exactly. You worded it to exclude Mladin's factory motocross ride just because he was racing in the Australian national championship instead of AMA or FIM motocross.

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

He has to be wrong, I mean he's done it.

Linkee

Ski boarding is pretty damn different from skiing, but ski boarding will make you a better skier.

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

My point is that Dirt riding is not the magic key to road riding that everyone acts like it is.

You have to learn from scratch if you start street riding and you should treat it as such.

If your point is that dirt riding is not a magic key to street riding, you should say that right off the bat. If you did I wouldn't have to argue with you.

[jk750]

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

Quoting Mat Mladin:

He has to be wrong, I mean he's done it.

Linkee

That's not the interview that I was talking about, but it states his opinion on the matter just as well.

Case Closed.

[R.Brosnan]

Originally Posted by jk750

Hayden was the last US pavement Champion to come from a dirt track background. I don't know who was the last US pavement Champion to come from an MX background.

Um, Spies?

Originally Posted by jk750

Mat Mladin, Troy Corser, Troy Bayliss and the rest began their pavement riding and racing on small bikes, as Fargin stated.

Not arguing with that.

Originally Posted by jk750

And none of them were MX Champions.

Mladin won three championships in his first year. Apparently dirt track experience helps when racing motocross.

Originally Posted by jk750

Anyway, the cream of the crop always rises and the top professionals seem to excel in various forms of two wheeled racing.

But the ones who have a dirt background shoot straight to the top, while everyone else works their way up.

A word of caution about asking pro riders: because they are such huge talents, a lot of them really don't know how they're doing what they're doing. How do the opinions of the pros stack up to yours on the subject of steering?

[R.Brosnan]

Originally Posted by jk750

That's not the interview that I was talking about, but it states his opinion on the matter just as well.

Case Closed.

Hurt Report.

[Lewd Ferrigno]

Originally Posted by R.Brosnan

Oh god, do we really have to go through this again? Here, I'll do both our parts: F:"Dirt bikes were basically street bikes" R:"Not since the 60s, they weren't" F:"They didn't have long travel suspension or knobbies" R:"They were in the second generation of long travel suspension, and they had knobbies back when dirt bikes were still modified street bikes" F:"They were still very different from modern bikes and demanded a different style" R:"What if you ride hare scrambles, or enduros, or desert, or just trail ride today?" F:"Still doesn't count. Because." R:"Dude, Roberts ranch, XR100s, knobbies. 2 Kenny Freakin Robertses" F:"Nope"

That about cover it?

The XR100 thing, which I owned one set up for dirt tracking, is not MOTOCROSS.

The Hurt Report is 27 years old. You mean to say that modern motocross riding is not more specialized then back in that era? I've seen Decoster films and can say that modern motocross is FAR different.

Originally Posted by R.Brosnan

Exactly. You worded it to exclude Mladin's factory motocross ride just because he was racing in the Australian national championship instead of AMA or FIM motocross.

No, I consider the Aussie SB championship to be high caliber racing. So, you assumed.

The fact still remains that the best riders in the world don't go to Australia to race motocross. That's a fact.

Originally Posted by R.Brosnan

Ski boarding is pretty damn different from skiing, but ski boarding will make you a better skier.

Don't know about skiing and don't care, but the fact remains that the guy you're using as a shining examples
DISAGREES WITH YOU

Originally Posted by R.Brosnan

If your point is that dirt riding is not a magic key to street riding, you should say that right off the bat. If you did I wouldn't have to argue with you.

Are you blind to posts where people say "you rode a dirtbike, so you should be fine" Shit, some guy on here told a kid to get an SV1000 as his first streetbike because he had dirt experience.

It's bad advice to say it helps. Because you rode MX (and lets face it, for every kid who says they raced MX, none of them have won major championship or are as talented as any of your examples. If they were, they wouldn't be ex-racers) doesn't mean you will have a leg up street riding. They're distinctly different.