Is this true or just B.S.?

CaliGirl_Jen · 04-04-2007, 03:53 PM

My brother is an idiot when it comes to choosing a bike. He has not taken the MSF and has only been riding on the street for a month on an expired permit. He just bought a VF500f a month ago and he said it isn't enough power for him and he is now looking at bigger bikes. Yes I have tried talking to him but just being a beginner myself he won't listen to me and he won't listen to my friends that have been riding for years because "he doesn't know them" but that isn't why I'm here.
So, he just said he has decided the sv1000 is not for him because he was told that "The high horsepower v-twins have lots of engine braking and can cause the rear tire to lock up under hard de-cel." He is now looking at just the I4s. Is this true about the high horsepower v-twins? I have never heard anyone mention it before and he said that it only relates to the high power ones (like the sv1000). This is just for curiosity sake not because I want one.

bush · 04-04-2007, 04:42 PM

It's not a bike problem, it's a rider problem.

Tell your brother to check out this site, he sounds like a squid in training.

LowKeyedUp · 04-04-2007, 04:57 PM

V-Twins have a lot of engine braking. That's why I love mine ::blub blub blub blub::. But if you don't know how to downshift properly, I suppose the rear tire wouldn't have any problems locking up on you. It has happened to me a couple of times on cold tires when I was not paying close enough attention. So it was rider error, not a problem with my awesome bike.

CaliGirl_Jen · 04-04-2007, 05:06 PM

That is what I think about the bike and my brother. I was thinking if you are decelerating quickly you won't be doing engine braking because the quickest way to stop is to pull in the clutch and hit both breaks at hard as you can without locking the wheels up. That way you are cancelling that forward momentum that the engine creates. Atleast that is was taught in my MSF course which I'm trying to get him to go to. (crosses fingers and prays) I thought if you are doing engine braking and you aren't in the correct rmps and down shift of course you will lose traction right? Just like on any other bike? So why would someone say that the v-twin is more likely to cause it? Is it because of the higher torque which when you engine brake just puts you in the higher end of the power band?

BLUEADRENALINE · 04-04-2007, 05:10 PM

Safety, safety, safety... Hadn't been riding long then i would not recommend a fuel injected bike. This information was referred to my by experienced riders that I know. Yet others have said that "it's all in the wrist" and the bike will not do anything you don't cause it to do. Good luck...

kevin_stevens · 04-04-2007, 05:13 PM

Some newer bikes, particularly the twins, come with a "slipper clutch", which acts like a ratchet and prevents/reduces the engine braking effect on the rear wheel.

Note that this was put in place to help racers who are shifting as rapidly as possible at extreme performance angles from crashing if they accidentally missed a shift. For street use it's a nice touch (and I think the newer SV1K has one), but it wouldn't be a buy/not buy choice for normal street use.

KeS

kevin_stevens · 04-04-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEADRENALINE

Safety, safety, safety... Hadn't been riding long then i would not recommend a fuel injected bike. This information was referred to my by experienced riders that I know. Yet others have said that "it's all in the wrist" and the bike will not do anything you don't cause it to do. Good luck...

I think that statement is so broad as to be worthless. I would not recommend a bike with abrupt throttle control. That covers a spectrum of engine sizes, types, intake technology, and ages.

KeS

RugbyCanada · 04-04-2007, 05:18 PM

Stop dating yer brother, he's genes are screwed up as it is. Other than that, you are asking some very good questions, that the MSF should have answered for you.

Now that me being a dick is out of the way, let me see if I can help answer the last question.---Engine breaking {yes, I spelled it that way} and downshifting are NOT the same thing. If you down shift ANY vehicle by slamming the clutch when RPM's do not match wheel speed, yer gonna have a problem. The problem is just more relevant on a bike.
Without dumbing it down, a "V-Twin" is "more likley" to "lock the rear wheel" because it takes more energy to "crank" the pistons on a massive twin, than it does for the same action on a smaller four.
btw--please dont take offence at my putting quotation marks around certain words. Trust me, there is no real reason for me to do it, except to hi-light that some phrases commonly used, have nothing to do with the physics or mechanics of what is actually happening.

Cheers, and ride safe.

CaliGirl_Jen · 04-04-2007, 05:58 PM

That was an inapproprate resonse rugbycanada and I do not appreciate the comment. If my question was answered in the MSF course I wouldn't be here asking it. Engine braking was only briefly mentioned in the classroom and we didn't do it at all on the range. I was asking because I want to know and understand more about bikes and because of that knowledge be a better rider.

GooseKZ1000 · 04-04-2007, 06:23 PM

Rugby is right though. Never use the engine as a brake, unless you got the budget to rebuild it.

Lewd Ferrigno · 04-04-2007, 06:52 PM

Engine braking can be more pronounced on a twin, but it really is down to rider technique.

My 675 will hop the shit out of the rear wheel if you don't rev-match your downshifts.

I think the real issue is that your brother is not thinking with his head. He's got a self esteem issue.

RayOSV · 04-05-2007, 12:06 AM

I've never locked the rear downshifting on my sv1k and I don't think it has a slipper clutch. V-twins do seem to have more engine braking (which doesn't hurt a damn thing if not done to an extreme), but pay attention to what you're doing and it's not an issue.

Ivan_markII · 04-05-2007, 12:27 AM

Don't like engine braking?

Turn your idle up.

kevin_stevens · 04-05-2007, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayOSV

I've never locked the rear downshifting on my sv1k and I don't think it has a slipper clutch.

"The same slipper clutch assembly as the TL is retained on the SV, helping decrease wheel hop under deceleration." - Sport Rider, 2003 SV1000S

"The SV1000S is fitted with a "back torque limiting clutch system" which we might refer to as a slipper clutch..."- MotorbikesToday.com

"The back-torque limiting system, commonly known as a slipper clutch, lightens the pressure on the clutch plates on the overrun, helping to prevent rear-wheel hopping." - motoring.co.za, 2003 SV1000S

"Six-speed transmission features a wide diameter, hydraulically-operated clutch with back-torque limiter system..." - Suzuki USA, 2007 SV1000S

KeS

RayOSV · 04-05-2007, 01:00 AM

^ I stand corrected and I like engine braking. Hardly ever use the "other" brakes except for stop lights.