Let's talk about the track...

[Truck]

I have been collecting my thoughts on this for a few days, enough to write this up. I read this forum and see people trying to start on 600cc's or even bigger and get quickly told to start on smaller bikes all the time. The general concensus of the forum is spend a year or two on the 250\500cc machines before making a jump to a supersport. What I don't see recommended a lot is GET ON THE TRACK. I'm not talking about take the MSF on Saturday and on Friday get on the track, however after spending 1000-2000 miles on the street, you should be comfortable enough with the controls of the bike to ride on the race track. Some of the best riders I know got on the track early so they didn't develop bad habbits.

Just because someone is attending a trackday doesn't mean they are a racer and it doesn't mean that they want to go 180mph. What getting on the track to me is getting to learn the bike, how it acts and how you can become more comfortable on two wheels. Instead of spending two years on the street commuting back and forth or riding a back road on your 250\500, get it to the track. It's expensive, but you'll learn more in one track day then one year on the street. Spend some time on the track and that way when you do get your 600-1000cc bikes, you'll be ahead of 98% of the street riding population .

[051000RR]

Truck, Damn good post bro!!!!! By doing track days, I have far exceeded my friends that I ride with that do not do them.....Everything you said makes total sense.......Now that I have a 1K I am one of the few that do not park in the corners and power back up....Thanks to track days!!!!!! Again good post sir!!!!!!!!!!

[TS80]

Not to mention they're tons of fun. I've only done a few, but I find myself continually saving up for the next one.

on the subject, I gotta get a trailer...prepping the bike in the parking lot is not fun, and I always have worries about rendering the bike un-ridable due to a crash and not being able to get home. Yes, I ride my bike to the track (200 miles away!), but only because I have no choice.

[Fargin_Bastige]

Originally Posted by Truck

I have been collecting my thoughts on this for a few days, enough to write this up. I read this forum and see people trying to start on 600cc's or even bigger and get quickly told to start on smaller bikes all the time. The general concensus of the forum is spend a year or two on the 250\500cc machines before making a jump to a supersport. What I don't see recommended a lot is GET ON THE TRACK. I'm not talking about take the MSF on Saturday and on Friday get on the track, however after spending 1000-2000 miles on the street, you should be comfortable enough with the controls of the bike to ride on the race track. Some of the best riders I know got on the track early so they didn't develop bad habbits.

Just because someone is attending a trackday doesn't mean they are a racer and it doesn't mean that they want to go 180mph. What getting on the track to me is getting to learn the bike, how it acts and how you can become more comfortable on two wheels. Instead of spending two years on the street commuting back and forth or riding a back road on your 250\500, get it to the track. It's expensive, but you'll learn more in one track day then one year on the street. Spend some time on the track and that way when you do get your 600-1000cc bikes, you'll be ahead of 98% of the street riding population .

I would never recommend a track day to a newer rider. The skills needed on track are not necessarily the ones needed to be developed on the street.

For instance, a newer rider needs to learn basic bike control, but, they need to learn the practical application of these controls in TRAFFIC. A controlled environment is a great place to learn high speed skills, but it will not teach you how to scan for traffic or the ability to predict the actions of a driver. It will not teach you how to stay alive on a daily basis.

The skillsets are not applicable to street, for the most part. I would not recommend one as complimentary to the other. They are separate concepts and skillsets and should be treated as such.

[PhillysFinest]

I agree 100% with the original post.

I have never agreed with the notion of begining on a 250/500 cc bike, but never chime in, because everyone here seems to go with the flock. I started on a 600, and did a track day within my first 4 months of riding. After my track day, I started to really feel comfortable with my bike, and my abilities to ride. By no means did it make me a cocky, over-confident rider, actually opposite.

I'd recommend taking your bike to the track if you are concerned with learning the dynamics of your bike at lean angle, at speed, and under braking. It opens up your eyes and aides in learning alot behind bike control. The best part is not having to worry about on coming traffic/trees/guardrails, etc.

In any case, a responsible rider will become a successful rider no matter where they come from as long as they respect the machine they are on and accept their own personal learning curve.

[051000RR]

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

I would never recommend a track day to a newer rider. The skills needed on track are not necessarily the ones needed to be developed on the street.

For instance, a newer rider needs to learn basic bike control, but, they need to learn the practical application of these controls in TRAFFIC. A controlled environment is a great place to learn high speed skills, but it will not teach you how to scan for traffic or the ability to predict the actions of a driver. It will not teach you how to stay alive on a daily basis.

The skillsets are not applicable to street, for the most part. I would not recommend one as complimentary to the other. They are separate concepts and skillsets and should be treated as such.

I somehow knew you would feel this way.....But I believe the OP stated that after you learned the basic controls on the street, 1000 to 2000 miles.....I apply alot of track experience on the street....How fast to enter a turn, how much lean required, how to throttle out without ending up on your ass....Some skills used on the track can be used on the street.....FB you have far more race experience than I do but they do not seem to be that diffferent if applied to the right situation.....Isn't that what the Novice group is for....To teach basic skills?

[BeachBoy7]

just wondering...how much is a track day....on average?

[PhillysFinest]

$150-$200 depending on the promoter. the biggest expense is the gear/transportation costs and accesories.

[ghost_a*]

couldn't agree more.

i think the 100% of new riders should start on a 250/500 bike is completely assanine.

i learned on a 636 and my first/current bike is a 600 and i've done fine.
if you're gonna go down, you're gonna go down. a 250 doesn't make you invincible.

however, i think that track days would be a damn good way for a beginner rider to learn the technical ways of aggressive riding.

great post.

[Fargin_Bastige]

Originally Posted by 051000RR

I somehow knew you would feel this way.....But I believe the OP stated that after you learned the basic controls on the street, 1000 to 2000 miles.....I apply alot of track experience on the street....How fast to enter a turn, how much lean required, how to throttle out without ending up on your ass....Some skills used on the track can be used on the street.....FB you have far more race experience than I do but they do not seem to be that diffferent if applied to the right situation.....Isn't that what the Novice group is for....To teach basic skills?

They are distinctly different to me.

On the street, I am concerned about getting home safely.

On the track, I am concerned about 10ths of a second and repetition.

On the street, repetition is not the norm. You can't find brake markers, or set the same entrance speed when you enter a corner. It's just not possible.

I think a novice needs to concentrate on getting home, instead of going fast. Getting through a corner safely, instead of setting an entrance speed.

I honestly find almost nothing from racing being applicable to the street. You'll see this in pro riders as well. Not many ride on the street, because of the danger involved. To me, that means that survival skills are different than cutting 10ths.

[Fargin_Bastige]

Originally Posted by ghost_a*

couldn't agree more.

i think the 100% of new riders should start on a 250/500 bike is completely assanine.

i learned on a 636 and my first/current bike is a 600 and i've done fine.
if you're gonna go down, you're gonna go down. a 250 doesn't make you invincible.

however, i think that track days would be a damn good way for a beginner rider to learn the technical ways of aggressive riding.

great post.

so, you've essentially been riding for 2 seasons and you're "fine"? You really need to think about your skill level before you give this advice.

[Kalvin00]

but please, if youre not at least somewhat smooth and fast, do a new rider school and get instruction or something...

nothing i hate more out on the track than some noobtard in C group darting all over the track, making him a hazard to pass...

[051000RR]

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

They are distinctly different to me.

On the street, I am concerned about getting home safely.

On the track, I am concerned about 10ths of a second and repetition.

On the street, repetition is not the norm. You can't find brake markers, or set the same entrance speed when you enter a corner. It's just not possible.

I think a novice needs to concentrate on getting home, instead of going fast. Getting through a corner safely, instead of setting an entrance speed.

I honestly find almost nothing from racing being applicable to the street. You'll see this in pro riders as well. Not many ride on the street, because of the danger involved. To me, that means that survival skills are different than cutting 10ths.

Ok, now I see where your head is FB! Damn you had me confused....W e are on two different topics.,...I was saying the cornering skills and How to take a turn, are easier to learn on track without the interference of cars and gaurdrails, etc....I understand what you mean now by paying more attention to traffic than going fast!!!!!

[ghost_a*]

Originally Posted by Fargin_Bastige

so, you've essentially been riding for 2 seasons and you're "fine"? You really need to think about your skill level before you give this advice.

i've been riding for about 3-4 years now.
i've seen a lot. i've done a lot.
i don't claim to be a veteran/expert.
just giving my 2 cents.