New Again. Answers and Opinions Wanted.

[Jake616]

http://forums.probetalk.com/showthre...3&page=1&pp=25

Hello, I am once again a newbie. Last time I registered for the site (before a reset) was pretty much a dead end due to a car accident. BUT...I am back and had a few questions.

The thread above is one from the car club I am in and some of their answers...Maybe you guys can read through it and offer your thoughts either?

thanks!
-jake

[Ordie]

nevermind

[linuxbikr]

Read through it.

Start with reading these:

http://www.beginnerbikes.com/editori...lsfunction.htm
http://www.beginnerbikes.com/editori...sfunction2.htm

Bottom line, you really should not be looking at a 600cc sportbike as a first bike. Especially as you are 19 years old with tickets. You might get away with cheap liability only insurance but even then, at your age even with minimums (which you should never do), it would likely be well in excess of $1000/year for you.

Banks will not give vehicle loans for bikes the way they do for cars. You'd need to get a personal loan to do that. And if you use the bike as collateral for the loan, you'll need to carry full coverage and that will send your insurance through the roof. Same goes for dealer financing.

The Yamaha $39/month offer only applies for the first year or two and then it transfers over to regular payments. Usually at 17% interest or higher. So it will go from $39/month to something like $200/month.

I recommend saving over the winter and spend $1000-$2000 on a used 250 or 500 just before the buying season really heats up (starts around early April). Factor another $1000+ for good gear and sign up for an MSF class in your area the moment they open up for registration.

It will be a lot cheaper on you, you'll learn at a much better rate and a more forgiving bike won't bite you the way a 600 can.

[IMPerfection]

I think you could get full gear for 800, but linux has good advice in general.

[Jake616]

Well I was looking at gear online and think that I could get by even cehaper than that....the helmets are what would get me. I'd only want 2 helmets, a jacket and gloves.

Yeah, insurance is the thing I am fearing the most. But i figure If I could skate by on $120/month insurance...I am definatley in the clear.



One thing though linux and others.....I am sure there is a big contraversy over what I should and shouldnt start on on here.....but I am almsot positive after I learn waht I am doing..I will want a larger bike. That would mean selling the 250-500cc and upgrading. Why not start @ a middle weight bike like a 600?

Is there any others links that you would recomend me reading, or anything else to do besides an MSF?

Thanks guys/gals!
-jake

[linuxbikr]

A 600cc sportbike is NOT a middleweight bike. It may sound middleweight compared to the liter bikes and the 'Busa/ZX-12R/Blackbird, but displacement does not equal tameness. Even an early 90s 600cc sportbike puts down 80+hp at the rear wheel. On my FZR600, that is equal to ~400hp at the wheels in a typical sports car. They are nervous, twitchy sensitive machines and they are not good things to learn on. It only gets worse as the bike gets newer.

It is very easy to sell a 250-500cc machine. Very easy. I sold my Ninja 250R in four hours. A smaller bike will teach you all the basics and allow you to push limits safely. More importantly, they won't hurt you as badly (depending on how you screw up) as a 600 will. They can keep up with anything out there except in the straights and that doesn't matter anyway.

You need to learn to crawl before you can walk. You don't learn to swim by saying the shallow end is for pussies and just jump into the deep end and expect to learn by thrashing around. People will drown if they do that. Learning to ride well is a process and it is best taken in steps. You're 19, you have years and years ahead to upgrade and step through various bikes.

Saying you are just going to upgrade anyway so you might as well get the dream bike is weak. It's weak because everyone upgrades. Almost no one keeps the first bike for long. Why? Because until you've spent time in the saddle, you honestly have no clue about the type of riding you will do and the type of bike you really want to ride. After a year or two on a starter bike, you have the experience and perspective to look more critically at that second bike and get one that truly matches your riding style, desires and needs. I'm still not there yet with my second bike. My third bike will be the one that really fits me right.

On gear, do not ignore pants and boots. Lower leg and ankle injuries are quite common and proper riding pants and boots go a long way towards preventing or eliminating it. Jeans and work boots are not protective gear. I'm biased on gear. I value my skin highly so I don't cheap out on gear. The cheapest item I own are my gloves. My cheapest jacket is my hot weather at $200. I trust it for in-city and light highway use. I prefer leather and always wear leather pants and good riding boots no matter the weather conditions or temperature. The rule with gear is examine it and then imagine yourself sliding along the pavement in it and decide if you will be comfortable doing that in it. Before buying any gear, search for first-hand accounts of riders going down in what you are considering. I don't care what the companies say. I look for what riders say. Or racers. If a racer falls in it and gets up, it heads to the top of the list.

Does your budget include maintenance? As the bike gets bigger, so do the costs. Especially in tires, chains, sprockets and plastic. Unless you plan to do all your own maintenance, you need to factor in routine maintenance. Bikes are very demanding in that arena. I might slide on my car but I am religious on bike maintenance. A minor problem might get my car in the shop. Ignore something that needs to be done on the bike and it can kill me.

$120/month for insurance is insane. You might get away with it on a 600 depending on the insurer. A 250/500 will likely be several fold cheaper and you can probably get better coverage. Remember, even though a Ninja 250/500 or a GS500 might look (and act) like a sportbike, many insurance companies consider them standards. That gets them out of the sportbike (and high risk/high loss) classification. There is a reason why 18-25 year olds have the highest insurance rates out there on sportbikes.

I recommend David Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling" series for starters. There are two books. The first is essential reading. The second is better appreciated after you've been riding awhile.

[RACER X]

Why buy a smaller, used bike first and then work your way up to the larger and/or more powerful bike?
This question seems to get debated ad-nauseum on internet discussion sites so I thought I'd put together my thoughts about it... take it or leave it, this advice is genuinely offered if you are in the position of starting motorcycling.

Many people view Harleys and other cruisers as proper bikes. Big 1000cc 1200cc bikes - "men's bikes"!! Or maybe the fastest bike ever, a Hayabusa 1300cc rocketship - woah, now that's a "real bike". So, a 600cc "crotch rocket" would be half the size and therefore a kid's bike - ideal for a learner obviously... Wrong - don't even go there. The big four manufacturers fight over that lucrative market like hungry hyenas, making beautiful shiny (virtually) race ready sportbikes that few new riders can resist.

So they innocently ask "which is the best 600cc bike to learn on?".

Comparing 600cc sportbikes as starter bikes is daft. They all have twice the power and a much much higher top speed than a cruiser. Some may be tamer than others but the basic premise of a middleweight sportbike is all wrong for learning motorcycle skills. The ergonomics are out and out dangerous for a newbie on the street ( reaching for clip ons, rear-set pegs, craning neck up in traffic, restricted turning circle etc etc..) and the power's too much. It's better to focus on a smaller displacement 'standard' bike. They are set up for more compliant handling and ride and they are more comfortable, an important point while you're learning.

Take the pressure off - get a starter bike to start on.

Accidents happen mostly between 6th month and 3rd year of riding so learn on something you won't be so upset about when you drop it.

A less powerful bike will not punish you so badly for jerking the throttle like a newbie.

Smaller and lighter bikes are easier to handle. There's a lot to think about until you're comfortable about turning, stopping, gearchanging acceleration.

The value of a smaller bike, eg a 250, is learning to get the performance out of them - it really teaches you to ride to the bike's and your own potential. A 250, 350, 400 might seem small to you at first, but think of it as a step in the journey, learn to wring it's neck and be a better rider in the long run.

Regardless of power and speed, it's a good idea for new riders to geta bike that allows both feet to be placed flat on the ground. This tends to inspire confidence and will eliminate a lot of concern about dropping the bike. Undeniably, the slow parking lot type manoevers are the trickiest for a new rider, and being able to put your feet down really helps.

Smaller bikes are also usually lighter - weight can be a big deal in gaining confidence on the first bike.

Starting on a faster bike makes learning proper brake technique harder. Most new riders cannot judge how to use brakes effectively, intuition tells us that using the front brake will "flip" the bike or make the tire slide out. It's common for new riders to thus make the mistake of depending on the rear brake and the faster you are going the deadlier it can be.

Insurance rates are much higher for the larger more powerful bikes.

What if you don't like riding? Used bikes don't depreciate as quickly as new bikes so you'll lose out less when you sell it.

If you buy a cheaper bike, you'll be able to afford better quality protective gear: Minumum should be full face helmet, Leather jacket, gloves, boots and leather pants (yes - leather pants: studies show the majority of injuries to bikers are lower body injuries). Also, wear all your gear every time you ride, even if it's just a mile or two down to the shops.

Here's a selfish reason: I've been riding for many years and I don't want newbies who are out of their depth tarnishing the image of sportbike riders - yes other more experienced and immature riders do plenty of that too but law enforcement can spot a newbie on a sportbike just as easily as you or I can.

The desire for a larger bike is sometimes (often) a result of peer pressure. How you deal with what others think of you is your problem but if you decide on the sportbike because you want to fit in or because your buddies said so, then you need to think really seriously about that.

Most expert riders recommend learning on a smaller bike as the safer route.

If you ask an experienced rider's opinion, find out from them: how experienced they are, exactly what they started on and what kind of riding they do.

The salesman at the bike showroom should NEVER be considered an experienced or expert rider in this matter. Whatever he says, take it with a pinch of salt, especially if it would seem to be helping him with a sale.

Newbies on powerful sportbikes look a LOT funnier wobbling round turns than newbies on smaller bikes.

Some people claim proudly ...I survived as a litre bike newbie... having got a big bad sportbike as their first bike and six months later, they're still around to talk about it. That's great but they were/are beating the odds and playing a high stakes game - the stake they are risking is their health or even their life. It's not really that wonderful. The other thing is, it's usually quite easy to spot the ones who started on bigger bikes - uncomfortable looking on the bike, less fluid on twisty roads, more focused on straightline speed than form, and quite embarrassing to watch at less than 5mph speeds.

This is not from my own experience, but many riders have said that motorcyclists who learn first on dirtbikes end up as better riders when they transition to streetbikes. This I think is a lot to do with throttle control, balance and learning far more about the limits of tire traction. So consider going that route first. MSF now runs Dirt Bike Schools for beginners.

A used bike will teach you about motorcycle maintainance, something every rider should at least know the basics of. It's less likely you'll want to get your hands dirty on a newer or more high-tech model.

Whichever bike you have decided on, try doing the basic Motorcycle Safety Foundation training course course BEFORE you commit to a bike. The MSF lend you a small displacement bike to start on and the time you spend riding that may help you with your decision. If you're outside the USA, take a look at these training links and see if you can find a local class.

[Ordie]

nevermind again

[2000NinjaZX6R]

I like how they said that the 600cc bikes aren't that fast. What the hell kind of car does he drive. I doubt it does 0-60 in 2.9 sec. Thats what the 600cc bikes can do. Top speeds in the area of 150 - 160 mph too. I really want to know what his definition of fast it. A bike that can give most cars ,even a lot of the exotics(0-60 anyway), a run for their money in most categories in my book is fast and dangerous in the wrong hands. Cagers have no clue especially the ones in those stupid ricer cars. That is why a lot of them think they can beat someone on their bike and will sit there trying to get me to race them while I just sit there and laugh.
Not saying everyone who owns a ricer is stupid. Some of them know their shit, but most don't.
And real riding and skill isn't even about how fast they are it is about control and handling the bike in many different situations on the street or track.

[Jake616]

Thanks for the information guys/gals. Maybe you can tell em your opinion on this bike?



*1990 Kaw. Nija 500 (frame/title)
*1996 Ninja 500 engine and dual exhaust
*new tires,new levers, new paint,new lower fairing,new grips,new mirrors,new turn lamps,new brakeline, new plugs/wires, new D&D chain
* Porsche blue,white wheels and a lockhart tinted winted screen

$1700

[paintedone]

thats lookin like something i am interested in Jake...im still in the market for my first bike ...might wait until tax season and warmer weather...

[Jake616]

What should I look to spend on gear and waht all gear should i invest in?

[nig]

Originally Posted by Jake616

What should I look to spend on gear and waht all gear should i invest in?

You should get over your "full suits are ghey" thinking; the point isn't to look cool. I would think $1000 on gear is about average for everything (pants, boots, helmet, jacket, gloves), but if you shop for closeouts and stuff you can definitely get by for less. I would not cheap out on gear if I were you, better to spend less on the bike.

If you don't want leather pants because they are too flashy you can get some nylon overpants. They are very convenient; big zippers go up and down both sides so you can slip them on/off over your street clothes very easily. They're much better protection than jeans (ie, they have armor and are more abrasion resistant).

The 500 is a good idea, and that one isn't too expensive, if everything is straight.

I would also ignore pretty much everyone on that other website's advice, even if they're your friends.

[Jake616]

blah... havent been on in a month. Where are all my other threads? :-(

[mercutio80]

The website was hacked. We lost a month's worth of posts.