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Help Me Fix ItA great place to post any problems you maybe having while working on your motorcycle. Most of us are do-it-yourselfers so this is a great way to share any information pertaining to fixing something or adding something on.
okay, so I got my $20 filter & o-ring from the kawi dealer, and my $30 liter of repsol, and I went to change oil but .....there is gas mixed with that shit. I think that one of the carb floats is sticking and that's whats causing it to idle like shit, but could that also be letting enough fuel in to run past the piston rings and into the case?
I really don't see that happening, but I don't really know much about this engine and searching didn't help for shit because it takes out 'in' between gas and oil and leaves me with every oil thread in the history of man.
I would think that if gas is running by the piston that means i'm only running 3 cylinders though, right? The problem is I have no idea if it's running on three because i don't have any experience with it. for all I know it's been running on 3 since it came home.
It does have a shitty knock at idle and it won't idle on it's own, which I am thinking is an effect of a stuck carb float. I guess the only way to know is to clean up the carbs, check for spark on all four cylinders, add the new oil in and see if it's running right. If there's anything I'm missing, help!!!
Yeah,sorry a search here didn't work as I think this has come up before. I know it has on the Exupbrotherhood forums.
It may have been just a stuck float,needle not seating etc.
Happened to me before. My problem though wasn't the needle or seat,but one of the O-rings that went around the brass insert that went into the carb body that the needle in-turn seats into it. I caught it before it could do any damage and /or the bike was started.
Damn thing was is that I JUST did a new oil change with new filter & Mobile 1 Gold cap oil only a few hundred miles earlier! And to top it off I had to tear into the carbs again. I had cleaned and adjusted them a couple times before. That's what cause the O-ring to start leaking as I "disturbed" the seal that had been taken up by gunk around the O-ring.LOL
I replaced all of them just to make sure I wouldn't have the same problem down the road and learned a valuable lesson to ALWAYS replace those old O-rings when I clean/rebuild carbs for the first go around from now on.
That was an expensive oil change to say the least.
What ever you do DO NOT try to start a bike that has Hydraulic Lock(liquid in the cylinder(s)). It won't compress and something has to give and you could damage hard parts real quick.Also as the fuel is in there as a liquid you could be washing down your cylinders also? That of course isn't a good thing on that particular dead cylinder. In a two stroke with pre-mix that may not be a big of a deal,but I would think in a 4 stroke there wouldn't be enough lubrication in the gas to keep from damaging the cylinder walls over time?
Last edited by coolatula : 01-27-2007 at 06:25 PM.
Yeah thanks for the response. The petcock is off and it's had about two weeks for anything that was going to flow into the oil to flow, so I went ahead and changed out the oil and filter. It didn't use the entire jug of repsol, maybe 3/4's, so after I rebuild the carbs and do the spark plugs (i can check for fluid in the cylinders when I do plugs) then I'll start it up and see what I'm looking like. I'll change the oil again after I've had a chance to get all the old crap out and make sure it doesn't smell like gas or anything. I think between two of the gallon jugs of the repsol going by the amount I put in the bike I can get about 3 oil changes out of it. I'd rather change the oil an extra time than have gas mixing with that shit though.
I hear you on the petcock thing as I usually shut the one one my bike off,but it's more of a habit from doing it with two strokes and old diesel tractors and there's really no reason to on a modern 4 stroke street bike that's in proper working order.
The thing is when this happened to my bike I got lazy and DID NOT shut it off. Boy,the one time I don't and look what happens! But,then again I may not have found the problem as quickly and that one cylinder may have ran excessively rich for a while and I may not have caught it until some damage was done.
Besides,part of my tank is below the carbs,so it's equipped with an electric fuel pump,so even if I shut the fuel off at the petcock there is still fuel in the lines that is under some residual pressure. There just isn't a lot of it,but there is some.
The only way I could ever really make sure that no fuel leaked past would be to put a fuel shut off valve on the line right before it branches off to each carb. That is overkill and if you have to do that,then you haven't properly addressed to root cause.
Last edited by coolatula : 01-27-2007 at 06:49 PM.
Last time I rode it it started spitting oil out the bottom as I was pulling into the driveway. I haven't touched it since then, but apparently it had leaked enough gas into the oil to ruin something. My dad tried to start it after the oil change and there is this metal on metal squealing coming out of it from somewhere.
I guess I'm going to pull the engine on it now....
Wow,sorry to here that. Did you take out ALL the spark plugs and blow the excess(if any) gas out of the cylinders before you tried to start it?
For damage to occur like you describe do you think it did cylinder wall/bearing damage? You may have been running it with the broken down/diluted oil too long and the oil couldn't keep all the parts properly lubricated.
I blew up a car engine 301 c.i. (Fire Bird) one time when I had a head gasket leak fluid into the engine and turn the oil into "chocolate milk". It wasn't pretty....,but the Pontiac 400 engine I replaced it with was!
Please post up when you find out what happened and the results. It may help someone else from going through the same thing.
Last edited by coolatula : 01-28-2007 at 06:52 PM.
I don't know that it's top end damage. What I think it is is something in the bottom end.
Pa tried to start it while I was still inside, but I know he didn't try and make sure gas was out of the cylinders.
I rode it for about 10-15 minutes a couple weeks ago, with the oil leaking right at the ass end, like seriously as I pulled it in to park it, so I don't know if it was really ridden long enough to cause that sort of damage. I guess any sort of time it could have happened in though. I may see if clearing out the cylinders and then starting it up and letting some fresh oil circulate doesn't make the noise go away, but I'm not hopeful.
As of right now it looks like the engine needs to be torn completely down to the bottom end and have everything inspected for damage and then replaced, so I don't think there is a whole lot to lose by running it for a minute or so with some decent oil and seeing if it's not just something that needs oil on it. I'm giving the noise disappearing and the engine being fine after that about a 0% chance.
Which brings me to my next question: Anybody know of salvage yards that will ship an engine for a 1994 ninja zx600c?
This just makes me feel shitty because there was really no way to see that there was gas in the oil. I mean I guess I should have thought about it, but the bike was running exactly the way it had when I got it, and I didn't see riding it doing any damage, as I was trying to hook up shit on the emissions system and see if it would help with the rough idle. Hindsight sucks.
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AAAAAAYYYYYYY!
Last edited by BurnMyHeartDown : 01-27-2007 at 08:02 PM.
that was actually my dad. i'm going to regret the day i showed him how useful this site is now.
damnit....jokes on me i guess....
Sorry Dad!!
i realize this is a bit old, but if you haven't done too much damage the engine is savable. even slight scratching of the journals can be polished out, or turned down to remove the gouging. i would first check on bearing availability, and particularly find out if thicker bearings are available in case you'd have to turn the shafts.....
if your motor is damaged beyond repair now is the time to look for a 750 and convert it .... if there was gas in the oil there should have been some sign of missfire causing a rough idle or a dead miss causing no power. the only other thing i can think of that would cause this if the engine was running good was low compression on all cylinders. low compression means more blowby.
gas in oil = i'm stumped.
.... if there was gas in the oil there should have been some sign of missfire causing a rough idle or a dead miss causing no power. the only other thing i can think of that would cause this if the engine was running good was low compression on all cylinders. low compression means more blowby.
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