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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
So you're saying that you enjoy watching Lorenzo or Stoner ride alone from the 3rd lap more than a good, tight race simply because the technology in the bikes is better?

WSBK has 6 factories competing with different platforms. 5 of them managed wins last year. Yamaha is even talking about coming back.

The sooner they go low-tech and facilitate closer racing, the better chance they have of regaining their spot as the premier championship in motorcycling again.
Cool. Go watch that series, since you like the way it works better. One of the best races I ever saw was Laguna Seca 2009 -- Pedrosa led flag to flag, and did an astounding job; a virtually perfect performance. It was simply beautiful to see.

If they "go low tech" they will NEVER "regain their spot as the premier championship in motorcycling again", because they will no longer be the best that can be made. The premier series, by definition, is the fastest riders on the fastest bikes. And it is the fastest bikes that make it the series where the fastest riders all want to be, so they can compete as the fastest racers on the planet. If you limit the tech too much, that distinction no longer applies, and it becomes just another series.

Again, there are PLENTY of race series that operate like you want them to. Why the hell can't you and all those that think like you go watch THOSE series, and leave just ONE series alone to be the tech leaders and the fastest bikes out there?

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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 07:31 AM
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Laguna Seca 2009 -- Pedrosa led flag to flag, and did an astounding job; a virtually perfect performance. It was simply boring to see.
Nobody else wants to see that. Certainly not enough to attract sponsors. To compound it, Europe is in worse economic condition than us, especially Spain, where MotoGP's ownership is located.

The premier class is whatever people choose it to be. AMA motocross was and is considered the premier level of MX, even though GP is a "world" championship. In the 90's AMA had (and still has) lots of production rules while GP allowed "Works" machinery. The AMA guys were still faster an MX des Nations. This is where MotoGP is headed if they don't change. Will you still watch then?
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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 07:35 AM
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6. Something to make it easier to pick up the bike.

(Personal story: I can't pick up my VFR, despite using the butt-at-edge-of-seat use-leg-not-back technique.)

Just saying........... VFR = 481 lbs (dry), Sportster 883 = 584 lbs (dry), granted the Sportster may have a lower Cg



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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
Nobody else wants to see that. Certainly not enough to attract sponsors. To compound it, Europe is in worse economic condition than us, especially Spain, where MotoGP's ownership is located.

The premier class is whatever people choose it to be. AMA motocross was and is considered the premier level of MX, even though GP is a "world" championship. In the 90's AMA had (and still has) lots of production rules while GP allowed "Works" machinery. The AMA guys were still faster an MX des Nations. This is where MotoGP is headed if they don't change. Will you still watch then?
Davidka, in my opinion sponsors are avaliable and MotoGP is just not doing a good job getting to them. I stand by my recurrent opinion that their marketing strategy is lacking.

But back to the point:

I don't think you are completely understanding Phil's point here. There are a LOT of other classes to watch that achieve what you are asking. What is it that you want, then? Why is WSBK, for example, not satisfying that to the point that you would want development of prototypes to be taken away from MotoGP?

WSBK is a world series where top riders battle in great races. It's great. I love it. I watch every single race.

But I love MotoGP for more than just racing.
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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 11:11 AM
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The rotary is an amazingly powerful platform but they are prone to failure. Mazda had limited success with them in Rally in the '80s. Maybe with more modern manufacturing techniques they could be made more reliable.
Mazda also won the 24 hours of Le Mans in 1991 with its four rotor 787B. Mazda and its rotary engine was and has been the only Japanese manufacturer to win a Le Mans race.

The rotary engine also won many American Le Mans races, and if memory serves me correct, they won their class couple of years in a row.

Its a good engine for racing purposes, and even for the street, however I think Mazda has made way too many mistakes. The third gen RX7 (93 and above) had a complicated sequential twin turbo setup. The RX8 engine needed much more R&D before going out to production (IMO) The RX8 should've had a third gen engine, with a single turbo, along with a friendler/faster ecu.
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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 02:23 PM
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Tire shredders
Oil slicks
Tazers

Make that **** fun.
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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 03:26 PM
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1. 30 cal fully automatic
2. rocket launchers.

And what he said.
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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 04:20 PM
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A jump.
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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 05:05 PM
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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Shamrock627 View Post
I would go even further and say, you run the entire season on the same tire construction.

example: If you run a medium soft tire, that med/soft tire is the SAME tire in race 16, as it is in race 1. No construction/compound/profile differences.
I could live with that. That's what pre-season testing is for, try some options and pick what you think you can make work.

If Michellin were to get involved again, I would hope they've learned to listen to their customers. After all, the teams racing their tires are customers.

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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 10:36 PM
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Davidka, in my opinion sponsors are avaliable and MotoGP is just not doing a good job getting to them. I stand by my recurrent opinion that their marketing strategy is lacking.

But back to the point:

I don't think you are completely understanding Phil's point here. There are a LOT of other classes to watch that achieve what you are asking. What is it that you want, then? Why is WSBK, for example, not satisfying that to the point that you would want development of prototypes to be taken away from MotoGP?

WSBK is a world series where top riders battle in great races. It's great. I love it. I watch every single race.

But I love MotoGP for more than just racing.
Moto 2 has full grids. MotoGP has a dozen bikes. The sponsors are there, they're just not willing to write big enough checks. MotoGP doesn't sell because the racing action is not there. There is no other reason.

I understand what Phil wants. The point I am making is that it is not sustainable.

I'd like to see MotoGP return to being a viable championship with more than 2-3 possible winners on the grid at the beginning of the season. If that happens, the viewership comes back and the sponsors come with them. The only way to do that is to close performance gaps between teams and reduce costs. Moto2's choices worked perfectly. Tight, exciting racing with many in contention on any given weekend.

It should be pointed out that in MotoGP you are not watching an unlimited prototype class, far from it. As long as it's a little faster than anything else, it's fast enough. The rest needs to be addressed. Another few seasons like we've seen and it's gone.

As for being satisfied with WSBK and Moto2? No. No WAY! I want motorcycle racing to have it's own prime time channel. I want all the classes to do well.
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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-18-2012, 10:29 AM
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Like the man said, "now that's entertainment!"

Damn fine movie, too.
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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-18-2012, 05:12 PM
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On the spec tires, look at this:

ASBK Series Control Tires - Sport Rider Magazine

Sounds like a better alternative.

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

I go Beltway blitzin' on my mad mofo musclebike WFO. Its a true choice, a god-like experience if you will. The thought that I could buy the farm in a spectacular fireball...................well, that gives me a stiffie! Tesco Vee/The Meatmen
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