Palomar run - Sportbikes.net
 

Home Message Board SBN Chat SBN Articles Bike Specs Register Classifieds Forum Rules Advertise Contact Us

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Go Back   Sportbikes.net > Topic Discussions > General Sportbikes
Register Subscribe Casino Garage FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Insurance Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Motorcycle Escrow


General Sportbikes This area is for sport bike discussion in general. Topics that don't really belong anywhere else can go here. Questions can be answered and addressed to fully understand certain aspects of the sport. If your question is manufacturer specific please post it there.
Sponsored by: TCX Boots

Insurance


Site Sponsors
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-10-2012, 08:23 AM   #1 (permalink)
UltimateOG
World 500 GP Racer
 
UltimateOG's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oceanside, CA
Age: 27
Posts: 2,707
Gameroom cash: $18616
Sportbike: 11 Ninja 650R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (Second Chance)
Thanks: 424
Thanked 472 Times in 321 Posts
UltimateOG is on a distinguished road
Default Palomar run

So yesterday me and a buddy went on Palomar mountain to get some twisties in our systems and while it wasn't my first time there on a bike, it was my first time with the 636.

So what I did first was a slow light run up the mountain just to get a feel for the road, how my body reacts to the road and how my bike reacts to both the road and my reactions to the road. There was a lot of loose sand about 3/4's the way up so I decided I would go half way up and turn around, go down turn around and start all over.

After the initial run and I was back in the bottom, I went for it trying out different gears. First gear seemed devoid of much power at any point and I had this constant feeling of being dropped in the curves. Second gear seemed perfect, had more umph in the low revs than first gear did in the mid rev zone, and was pretty much the only gear I used. Third just didn't feel right, so I didn't use it much at all except for when I thought I needed shift up but turned out to be wrong.

So anyhow, on my second lap I felt that I was breaking from the rear on entry point to each corner too much. I remembered the talks on here about using the front brake lightly before entry point and then to let the bike roll in the curve and let on the throttle gradually upon exit. I felt off with myself as I know I could have done better.

Third lap, I use strictly 2 gear and push myself more. Each time I started to get scared about the curves and twists I remembered that the bike was meant to handle this and can handle it, the only weakness is in the bike is me. So I pushed my trust into the bike and leaned in, and to my surprise we pulled through each curve past my fears. It was felt great for me because I haven't gotten the chance to lean over that much before. One thing though, on the tighter curves I felt my rear tire slipping and sliding out here and there. Not enough to lose control and low side, but I could feel my tire losing traction for a split second. Not sure if it was the tire, slippery gravel that I couldn't notice, but it felt weird. I didn't like it.

So lap number 4, I push myself some more, trying to lean more into turns, front more assertively on entry to curves and to maintain a line. My lines suck but I am working on it. I still felt my rear wheel losing traction with the road from time to time, but I pushed through it and if I was to fall then I fall and get right back up. Through some wider curves I felt leaned over a about 45 degrees at least, but according to the photos that a local photographer took I was only about 30-35 degrees at best. Kinda made me mad but just goes to show I can do more. I wanted to do more, but at the rate I was going at I felt myself getting really ballsy and wanted to put a cap on my confidence that was becoming cockiness.

I enjoyed myself, felt myself wanting more from my own abilities and wanting to do more with the bike. Haven't fully gotten over the rear wheel thing though. I ride with continental tires at the moment, thought about going Michelin next tire change. Speaking of I will post pics of my tires so I could get some pointers. I honestly don't feel comfortable leaning with these tires but it could be just me and I am not sure. Also I am going to invest in a GoPro setup when I have the funds for it.
__________________
When Life Gets Hard, Play Harder.
UltimateOG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to UltimateOG For This Useful Post:
scythe08 (12-10-2012)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-10-2012, 10:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
steingar
You are here
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: midgard
Posts: 3,304
Gameroom cash: $19525
Sportbike: 1914 Illinois Time King
Thanks: 117
Thanked 755 Times in 506 Posts
steingar has disabled reputation
Default

I am so glad I never owned a sportbike in So Cal. I know I would have turned that road into my own little racetrack, and gotten hurt or gotten someone else hurt. Fortunately the worthwhile twisties are sufficiently distant that I don't run them often.
steingar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to steingar For This Useful Post:
ZorroX (12-10-2012)
Old 12-10-2012, 11:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
arcticamt6
World 500 GP Champion
 
arcticamt6's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Age: 26
Posts: 21,199
Gameroom cash: $93764
Sportbike: 2008 Triumph Daytona 675
Thanks: 1,166
Thanked 2,396 Times in 1,339 Posts
arcticamt6 is on a distinguished road
Default

Double post
arcticamt6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 11:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
arcticamt6
World 500 GP Champion
 
arcticamt6's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Age: 26
Posts: 21,199
Gameroom cash: $93764
Sportbike: 2008 Triumph Daytona 675
Thanks: 1,166
Thanked 2,396 Times in 1,339 Posts
arcticamt6 is on a distinguished road
Default

[QUOTE=arcticamt6;4799773]Old tires? If they are hard, they will just not feel good period. If you are not taking the bike to the track, I would suggest throwing a new pair of Michelin Road 3's or Pirelli Angels on there. More than enough grip on the street to do anything including getting a knee down, better wet performance, and longer life.

I'm going to run my Pirelli DRC's on the street only until they run out, and then it's sport touring tires again.


Oh and watch for cops on Palomar. It's not often that they set up busts, but thy do occur. I've seen police helicopters out there calling out riders to police in cruisers o grab at the top/bottom.


Sent from my iPhone using Motorcycle.com Free App
arcticamt6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 01:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
outhouse
500 GP Racer
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: auburn ca
Age: 51
Posts: 848
Gameroom cash: $7752
Sportbike: 1998 zx6e ,, 2010 husaberg 450 fe,, 2011 ducati 848,, Ducati 1199 S
Thanks: 55
Thanked 97 Times in 67 Posts
outhouse is on a distinguished road
Default

If your tires are breaking at this kind of pace, you have issues that need to be addressed.


Is the rear Suspension set up properly?


What tires and pressure?
outhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 01:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
UltimateOG
World 500 GP Racer
 
UltimateOG's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oceanside, CA
Age: 27
Posts: 2,707
Gameroom cash: $18616
Sportbike: 11 Ninja 650R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (Second Chance)
Thanks: 424
Thanked 472 Times in 321 Posts
UltimateOG is on a distinguished road
Default

I haven't changed the suspension since I got the bike and I honestly have never gotten around to it and I don't know how to. I know google is out there but it just never crosses my mind when i get home.
__________________
When Life Gets Hard, Play Harder.
UltimateOG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 01:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
ZorroX
CCS# 616
 
ZorroX's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: S. Florida
Age: 24
Posts: 910
Gameroom cash: $8213
Sportbike: 00 SV650(track)/07 GSXR600(street)
Thanks: 759
Thanked 305 Times in 171 Posts
ZorroX is on a distinguished road
Default

You are going to get hurt trying to learn to go fast on public streets.
ZorroX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 02:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
Jamie01
Superbike Racer
 
Jamie01's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Brooklyn NY
Age: 50
Posts: 208
Gameroom cash: $2153
Sportbike: 2001 Honda F4i
Thanks: 30
Thanked 107 Times in 59 Posts
Jamie01 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateOG View Post
I remembered the talks on here about using the front brake lightly before entry point and then to let the bike roll in the curve and let on the throttle gradually upon exit.
This sounds like you are coasting through the turn, which could be a big part of your problem. As soon as you're done braking for the turn you need to crack open the throttle. Keep it open enough to maintain your speed while at full lean. This will properly distribute your weight between front and rear and will make you much more planted. Then add more throttle as you stand the bike back up.
Jamie01 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jamie01 For This Useful Post:
akiraruns (12-13-2012), Hyena (12-11-2012), Razzy (12-17-2012)
Old 12-10-2012, 02:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
UltimateOG
World 500 GP Racer
 
UltimateOG's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oceanside, CA
Age: 27
Posts: 2,707
Gameroom cash: $18616
Sportbike: 11 Ninja 650R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (Second Chance)
Thanks: 424
Thanked 472 Times in 321 Posts
UltimateOG is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie01 View Post
This sounds like you are coasting through the turn, which could be a big part of your problem. As soon as you're done braking for the turn you need to crack open the throttle. Keep it open enough to maintain your speed while at full lean. This will properly distribute your weight between front and rear and will make you much more planted. Then add more throttle as you stand the bike back up.
Very likely, and could be a result of my lines or lack thereof. Some curves i can keep a line and others i misjudge when to start leaning in and lean too tight, just to re-adjust my line and screw with speed and weight distribution.

Ultimately I am going to need to do a few track days, but i just cannot afford to at the moment. My hopes are that I can be able to, as the more i ride my bike the more i want to turn it into a track bike and have a different bike for street use. But that is probably years from happening.
__________________
When Life Gets Hard, Play Harder.
UltimateOG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 04:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
Bird of Fire
500 G.P. Champion
 
Bird of Fire's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SoCal
Age: 34
Posts: 1,362
Gameroom cash: $14161
Sportbike: 2005 SV650S
Thanks: 242
Thanked 549 Times in 261 Posts
Bird of Fire is on a distinguished road
Default

Agreed with Jamie. You brake, shift weight bias onto the front tire, unload the rear, lean hard, and the rear tire skitters about. The rear tire is bigger for a reason, give it a little bit of gas so that the bike has properly distributed weight and can do its job.

Secondly set your suspension sag (go to you tube for a how to) and look around on 636 specific forums for rebound/compression setting advice for your weight.

edit - and please be careful. Not your personal playground out there and there's likely to be other people out there too that could run wide right into you.
Bird of Fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 04:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
kevin_stevens
Mediocre Strafer
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,148
Gameroom cash: $895
Sportbike: Ex-rider
Thanks: 677
Thanked 2,176 Times in 1,004 Posts
kevin_stevens will become famous soon enoughkevin_stevens will become famous soon enough
Default

I don't think your rear tire is actually sliding on you, on Palomar Mountain in second gear. It's much more likely that it is just wearing off the flat spot it has developed from not being leaned over very much. Worn rear tires feel rather squirrely in cornering, and you have to just get used to it.

I would practice going UP Palomar for the most part. In so doing you would require very little in the way of braking at all due to the grade, and at the same time will have enough weight on the rear wheel to be certain it isn't going anywhere. Then turn around and come down slowly, practicing your form and transitioning from braking to cornering with very little throttle involved (again, the grade will keep your front wheel weighted).

One helpful thing about Palomar is that all the turns are virtually identical. There are none that can't be handled at a sedate 30-40 mph, so you can lock that in your brain and maintain a confidence that as long as you stay within that target range, there's no need to worry about anything.

KeS
__________________
My rider resume.

Last edited by kevin_stevens; 12-11-2012 at 06:07 AM.
kevin_stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 05:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
UltimateOG
World 500 GP Racer
 
UltimateOG's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oceanside, CA
Age: 27
Posts: 2,707
Gameroom cash: $18616
Sportbike: 11 Ninja 650R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (Second Chance)
Thanks: 424
Thanked 472 Times in 321 Posts
UltimateOG is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin_stevens View Post
I don't think your rear tire is actually sliding on you, on Palomar Mountain in second gear. It's much more likely that it is just wearing off the flat spot it has developed from not being leaned over very much. Worn rear tires feel rather squirrely in cornering, and you have to just get used to it.

I would practice going UP Palomar for the most part. In so doing you would require very little in the way of braking at all due to the grade, and at the same time will have enough weight on the rear wheel to be certain it isn't going anywhere. Then turn around and come down slowly, practicing your form and tranitioning from braking to cornering with very little throttle involved (again, the grade will keep your front wheel weighted).

One helpful thing about Palomar is that all the turns are virtually identical. There are none that can't be handled at a sedate 30-40 mph, so you can lock that in your brain and maintain a confidence that as long as you stay within that target range, there's no need to worry about anything.

KeS
Going up is no doubt easier to do than going down, and i also brake more when i am coming downhill rather than uphill. I don't ever go side to side or remotely close to others, I like to keep my distance and if other riders are on my ass i move over and signal them to pass. Cars are a whole different story, i just pull over and wait for them to go. Thank cars do the same for me when i get right behind them on Palomar.

I am stopping by a gas station to check out how much air is in my tires. They are supposed to be about 42 PSI, but I really want to say that they are much lower than that. My buddy was telling me to run less air in my tires when doing any sort of twisties on our kind of bikes, which I do not know if that is true or not. Later this week I will re-adjust the suspension of my bike and my forks.
__________________
When Life Gets Hard, Play Harder.
UltimateOG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 05:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
UltimateOG
World 500 GP Racer
 
UltimateOG's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oceanside, CA
Age: 27
Posts: 2,707
Gameroom cash: $18616
Sportbike: 11 Ninja 650R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (RIP), 05 ZX6R (Second Chance)
Thanks: 424
Thanked 472 Times in 321 Posts
UltimateOG is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZorroX View Post
You are going to get hurt trying to learn to go fast on public streets.
Not to be a douche or anything, but being on a motorcycle i am likely to get hurt by virtually anything.
__________________
When Life Gets Hard, Play Harder.
UltimateOG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to UltimateOG For This Useful Post:
PCHbreeze (12-13-2012)
Old 12-10-2012, 06:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
dveldt
500 G.P. Champion
 
dveldt's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Anaheim
Age: 35
Posts: 2,037
Gameroom cash: $14760
Sportbike: 2007 Kawasaki 500R - Totaled / 2003 600 F4i
Thanks: 397
Thanked 423 Times in 294 Posts
dveldt is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateOG View Post
Going up is no doubt easier to do than going down, and i also brake more when i am coming downhill rather than uphill. I don't ever go side to side or remotely close to others, I like to keep my distance and if other riders are on my ass i move over and signal them to pass. Cars are a whole different story, i just pull over and wait for them to go. Thank cars do the same for me when i get right behind them on Palomar.

I am stopping by a gas station to check out how much air is in my tires. They are supposed to be about 42 PSI, but I really want to say that they are much lower than that. My buddy was telling me to run less air in my tires when doing any sort of twisties on our kind of bikes, which I do not know if that is true or not. Later this week I will re-adjust the suspension of my bike and my forks.
Lower your pressure. I run the Continentals on the F4i and I found that 35/35 worked well for twisty runs. 32/32 felt flat, and the usual 38/42 I run for commuting is too stiff. I have the same issues with the rear feeling like it's stepping out, but I'm chalking it up to the flat spot from commuting so I just don't even try to push these tires that hard. I also seriously need to get my suspension setup, but from what I've read the front needs to be resprung/revalved to set for my weight and I don't have the cash for that right now.
dveldt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 06:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
dveldt
500 G.P. Champion
 
dveldt's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Anaheim
Age: 35
Posts: 2,037
Gameroom cash: $14760
Sportbike: 2007 Kawasaki 500R - Totaled / 2003 600 F4i
Thanks: 397
Thanked 423 Times in 294 Posts
dveldt is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateOG View Post
Not to be a douche or anything, but being on a motorcycle i am likely to get hurt by virtually anything.
Sorry, I have to agree with ZorroX. You shouldn't push yourself that hard on the street. There are far too many variables and while you may not care if you're going to get to hurt, or wreck, or go down, you might take someone else out in the process, and that's just not okay.
dveldt is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Look for us on palomar 6-7-08 gsxr_fan2003 California 27 06-09-2008 11:25 PM
Palomar Sat. 8/10 Brianetics Pacific 1 08-10-2002 11:37 AM
Anyone been up to Palomar lately? kreationz Pacific 2 02-02-2002 10:42 PM
Anyone been up to Palomar lately? kreationz Pacific 6 01-10-2002 08:54 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0
1997 - 2007 Sportbikes.net INC. All Rights Reserved.
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6
1199 Panigale Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1
Ducati Monster Harley Forums Honda CBR250R ZX10R Forum Star Raider
Suzuki GSXR V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Kawasaki Motorcycles Star Warrior
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Honda Fury Kawasaki Versys Drag Racing
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Triumph 675 MV Agusta Forum Streetfighters