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Old 12-10-2012, 06:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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So anyhow, on my second lap I felt that I was breaking from the rear on entry point to each corner too much. I remembered the talks on here about using the front brake lightly before entry point and then to let the bike roll in the curve and let on the throttle gradually upon exit. I felt off with myself as I know I could have done better.
Not sure what you're saying here, but on Palomar south grade (tight side), on a 636 in second gear, I can think of no reason why I would ever touch the rear brake.

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Old 12-10-2012, 06:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UltimateOG View Post
Not to be a douche or anything, but being on a motorcycle i am likely to get hurt by virtually anything.
Take it to the track...where you can actually do laps.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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This is the point where you need to go to the track and get some competent guidance and instruction, before you hurt yourself.

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Going up is no doubt easier to do than going down, and i also brake more when i am coming downhill rather than uphill. I don't ever go side to side or remotely close to others, I like to keep my distance and if other riders are on my ass i move over and signal them to pass. Cars are a whole different story, i just pull over and wait for them to go. Thank cars do the same for me when i get right behind them on Palomar.

I am stopping by a gas station to check out how much air is in my tires. They are supposed to be about 42 PSI, but I really want to say that they are much lower than that. My buddy was telling me to run less air in my tires when doing any sort of twisties on our kind of bikes, which I do not know if that is true or not. Later this week I will re-adjust the suspension of my bike and my forks.
I *very* much doubt that your tire pressures are supposed to be 42 psi. If that's the number on the side of the tire, that does NOT mean the recommended pressure for anything; that's the MAXIMUM pressure allowed for ANY application. Your owners manual will have a better number for what your pressure should be.

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Old 12-10-2012, 08:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Weenie <-- not ever gonna take a chance to ride fast on curves on a public road on my new 2012 CBR600: but after riding for 6 months on this bike, I'm starting to think that I want to try and ride fast on curves for fun so...

Consolation: tells self to wait until I can get a bike that I can crash a few times in an environment where it will not kill me"--plan on getting a used 250cc bike an ride on a track going out for fun to learn and get better...on a track where I will likely only end up with a mostly bruised ego from crashes instead of something serious.

Crashed plenty of times on a dirt bike, and know that crashes can instantly reinforce bad riding decisions are not exactly fun...some day maybe this summer I'll have enough extra dinero to get that used 250cc and try out some track days. Definately on my list of to do stuff. =)
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin_stevens View Post
Not sure what you're saying here, but on Palomar south grade (tight side), on a 636 in second gear, I can think of no reason why I would ever touch the rear brake.

My inexperience had me going into the corner too fast so i slowed down before i felt comfortable to lean and throttle through. The course is not too complicated to remember, but it isn't engraved in my head yet.

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Take it to the track...where you can actually do laps.
When i have the funds, or a second bike for commuting I will. As much as i didn't see myself doing track days, going up and down Palomar just gave me a reason to do it. Even if it was just to learn the proper body positioning technique and about proper line posture and weight distribution.

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This is the point where you need to go to the track and get some competent guidance and instruction, before you hurt yourself.

I *very* much doubt that your tire pressures are supposed to be 42 psi. If that's the number on the side of the tire, that does NOT mean the recommended pressure for anything; that's the MAXIMUM pressure allowed for ANY application. Your owners manual will have a better number for what your pressure should be.

PhilB
That is good to know, I actually did think it was the recommended pressure when i read it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:44 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Try the East Grade also. I actually prefer it. It's more wide-open so you can go faster.

Also, 32/32 is a good place to start.
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:15 AM   #22 (permalink)
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My inexperience had me going into the corner too fast so i slowed down before i felt comfortable to lean and throttle through. The course is not too complicated to remember, but it isn't engraved in my head yet.
That's not what I meant. You are riding a sport bike up and down Palomar south grade road. You shouldn't be using your rear brake. Apart from the whole "emergency braking" thing which doesn't apply here, you are going nearly a constant speed and all the rear braking you need will be handled by the engine decelleration in second gear. Light use of the front brake is all that's required, even going downhill.

As I mentioned above, a nice thing about Palomar south grade is that there is no need to "memorize a course". If you set your speed on the first couple of turns, you can ride that same speed with confidence up and down the mountain. There are no surprise turns that are significantly slower.


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When i have the funds, or a second bike for commuting I will. As much as i didn't see myself doing track days, going up and down Palomar just gave me a reason to do it. Even if it was just to learn the proper body positioning technique and about proper line posture and weight distribution.
You need to learn that anyway. Stop treating Palomar like a race track and just treat it like a road. You still need proper line, posture, and weight distribution. These are fundamentals of riding a motorcycle properly and safely.

Quote:
That is good to know, I actually did think it was the recommended pressure when i read it.
Haven't you been here awhile? I thought you had been riding for several years, for some reason. Now you're posting up that you haven't set up your bike suspension, you don't know what pressure to run in your tires, you don't seem to have the fundamentals of braking down, and you clearly don't have the basics of setting up and entering normal corners.

This is not good. Palomar is actually a fairly good place to practice fundamentals, but not if you are romping on the rear brake and trying to decide what gear to ride in. It is a mountain and you can fall off of it. I'm concerned by your report.

I don't think you need a track school, I think you need some review of basics. I would recommend one of the basic riding books, Lee Parks by preference because he discusses suspension and a step-by-step approach to turn execution.

You might try Old Julian Highway rather than Palomar mountain. And not with a friend you are trying to "go for it" to keep up with.

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Old 12-11-2012, 06:32 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UltimateOG View Post

I am stopping by a gas station to check out how much air is in my tires. They are supposed to be about 42 PSI, but I really want to say that they are much lower than that. My buddy was telling me to run less air in my tires when doing any sort of twisties on our kind of bikes, which I do not know if that is true or not. Later this week I will re-adjust the suspension of my bike and my forks.
I doubt highly that your tires are supposed to be 42 PSI, I can't think of a single motorcycle tire that has that as a recommended number, I CAN think of a number of them that suggest 42psi as a MAX. Which is the pressure you would run if you were:
a) Commuting and trying to keep tire wear down,
b) Running the MAX recommended weight capacity PER TIRE which usually only applies to heavy touring bikes two up.

Start at the recommended STREET temp for the tire per the manufacturer and then run it until you think its full temp. If your tire pressure increases more then 10% you were under inflated and if it increase less you were over inflated.

Higher pressures have undesirable effects on warm up and overall traction, hypersport are actually designed to wrap around the rim for a bigger contact patch and running 40psi for the hell of it stops that effect.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:00 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin_stevens View Post
That's not what I meant. You are riding a sport bike up and down Palomar south grade road. You shouldn't be using your rear brake. Apart from the whole "emergency braking" thing which doesn't apply here, you are going nearly a constant speed and all the rear braking you need will be handled by the engine decelleration in second gear. Light use of the front brake is all that's required, even going downhill.

As I mentioned above, a nice thing about Palomar south grade is that there is no need to "memorize a course". If you set your speed on the first couple of turns, you can ride that same speed with confidence up and down the mountain. There are no surprise turns that are significantly slower.




You need to learn that anyway. Stop treating Palomar like a race track and just treat it like a road. You still need proper line, posture, and weight distribution. These are fundamentals of riding a motorcycle properly and safely.



Haven't you been here awhile? I thought you had been riding for several years, for some reason. Now you're posting up that you haven't set up your bike suspension, you don't know what pressure to run in your tires, you don't seem to have the fundamentals of braking down, and you clearly don't have the basics of setting up and entering normal corners.

This is not good. Palomar is actually a fairly good place to practice fundamentals, but not if you are romping on the rear brake and trying to decide what gear to ride in. It is a mountain and you can fall off of it. I'm concerned by your report.

I don't think you need a track school, I think you need some review of basics. I would recommend one of the basic riding books, Lee Parks by preference because he discusses suspension and a step-by-step approach to turn execution.

You might try Old Julian Highway rather than Palomar mountain. And not with a friend you are trying to "go for it" to keep up with.

KeS
Only been here a year and a half. With Palomar i was experimenting with different things. As said earlier it was the first time i went with my current bike so i was curious of how the different ways i could ride up and down. Each time i went up i actually did treat it like an actual road. And I do not know where you got the idea that i was playing catch up with my buddy, as me and him went at Palomar at different times. In fact we were always going in opposite directions.

There is a lot of basic that i want to relearn and I am signing up to redo the Advanced Riders Course soon to go through those techniques that i learned but with my current bike. Also, like stated earlier I am still learning the ins and outs of my bike. Changing suspension settings is one of the things I don't really have someone around to show me how to adjust it. My buddy usually lets a local shop take care of that for him, which i am considering swinging by there just to learn how to do that. So sorry that I am not up to par with my bike as you all are. I am trying to get there but at my own pace and within financial means.

I do know the dangers that Palomar is a mountain, such the same as a portion of Ortega highway. So maybe I came off wrong when i wrote about my time on Palomar, or some of you would rather me leave the bike in the garage except just to commute to work.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Just an FYI for the people saying 42 is too high. He has continentals, they're sport touring tires and yes, it's recommended 38/42 for tire pressures. It's a much harder center and softer edges, but it's not a sport tire. 32/32 is too low on the F4i (although my suspension also isn't setup correctly yet) and I run them 35/35 in the canyons. 38/42 for commuting and longevity, or 36/38 for more aggressive commuting (I've got some fun interchanges I can hit pretty hard and the 36/38 handle them well)
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:28 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Just an FYI for the people saying 42 is too high. He has continentals, they're sport touring tires and yes, it's recommended 38/42 for tire pressures. It's a much harder center and softer edges, but it's not a sport tire. 32/32 is too low on the F4i (although my suspension also isn't setup correctly yet) and I run them 35/35 in the canyons. 38/42 for commuting and longevity, or 36/38 for more aggressive commuting (I've got some fun interchanges I can hit pretty hard and the 36/38 handle them well)

I run 30/30 on the the track (have gone down to 28/28) and 34/34 on the street. Both on street tires on a 2002 f4i
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:01 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by danny500r View Post
Just an FYI for the people saying 42 is too high. He has continentals, they're sport touring tires and yes, it's recommended 38/42 for tire pressures. It's a much harder center and softer edges, but it's not a sport tire. 32/32 is too low on the F4i (although my suspension also isn't setup correctly yet) and I run them 35/35 in the canyons. 38/42 for commuting and longevity, or 36/38 for more aggressive commuting (I've got some fun interchanges I can hit pretty hard and the 36/38 handle them well)
42psi cold? What's that creep up to once he starts rolling through the turns? He's about 10psi cold too high by my count.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:15 PM   #28 (permalink)
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42psi cold? What's that creep up to once he starts rolling through the turns? He's about 10psi cold too high by my count.
42 psi for commuting. I'd never run these tires at 32/32 for commuting, you'd tear through the middle of them quickly. I've got about 10k on mine and I just barely developed a flat spot about 2k miles ago while running 38/42 for commuting.

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I run 30/30 on the the track (have gone down to 28/28) and 34/34 on the street. Both on street tires on a 2002 f4i
I'm willing to bet they are street/sport tires...

Apparently nobody is paying attention to the fact that these are sport TOURING tires which do run a higher PSI. While they work fine for casual twisty runs maybe even a little quicker than casual, I wouldn't ever try to ride aggressive on them even with a lower PSI, they just aren't really made for it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Right. For commuting though. 42 for canyon runs is too high IMO. I run 33/36 on my 2ct's and it's cool at that, and I readily admit I've never used what ya'll are using.

At any rate he made the noob mistake of looking at the sidewall for rec'd tire pressure, and assumed max psi = this is what we recommend.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I do know the dangers that Palomar is a mountain, such the same as a portion of Ortega highway. So maybe I came off wrong when i wrote about my time on Palomar, or some of you would rather me leave the bike in the garage except just to commute to work.
Sorry you feel that way. Good luck.

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