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Old 12-07-2012, 04:53 PM   1 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)
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Default Pivot Steering

Let me hear from the riders that actually use this technique or have used compared to something else and know the difference.


I found a prev thread discussing the pivot steering vs. swerving when avoiding pothole or any quick maneuvering. I'd like to touch more in detail of what it is and how it's done in cornering.

I understand that by putting your weight in the outer peg, it provides better traction/balance/control of the bike due to lower center of gravity(at the pivot point) and also freeing up other pivot points like handle bars, gas tank, seat, etc. will allow you to steer more quickly and precisely.


Do I have it just about right in theory? anything to be corrected or added?


For the part of actually putting this together in action, (I've only practiced in streets and canyons so nothing high speed) I seem to find myself more at ease putting my weight on the inner peg. This is due to the body positioning when I'm hanging off of the bike into the corner, the center of my body is above the inner peg.


How does it actually feel to pivot steer?
Should I feel more like I'm pushing the bike away from my body (stand it upright) with my outter leg?
Is what I'm doing now(weight on inner peg) a bad move?
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Twist of the Wrist II, by Keith Code

I am not responsible for this link, I just found it with a web search:

http://files.meetup.com/1510087/A%25...ist%2520II.pdf

You want Chapter 19, page 87.

- John
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:36 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I've been trying it off and on, so far I've had better luck with moving the pegs back (replaced the Bandit's rearsets w/ a pair from a Hayabusa) and obtaining a better grip w/ the knees, which seems to be a better basis for leaning the upper body inside and getting weight off the bars. A lot of pivot steering's effectiveness or lack thereof may be related to the posture on the bike- it seemed slightly more effective when I moved the rearsets.

Weight on the inside bar is a recurring issue for me, apparently part of the cornering survival reactions TOTW2 talks about. Reducing speed so steering is not rushed seems an effective approach- also from TOTW2.
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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IMO, PS is just a fancy term, most people rides use it automatically, it is just that they are not aware of it.

The only time I really feel it is the kink after the keyhole at mid ohio; It is usually more pronounce when you have to change directions at higher speed while your body is still kind of inline with the bike.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I experimented with this a lot all through the season. The conclusion that I came to is that you can't actually put weight on the outside peg if you're hanging off and leaned over. When you're leaned over your outside knee is holding a lot of the weight and if you're like me your outside foot is barely resting on the peg.

So basically, I just forgot about weighting the pegs and focused on good foot position.

Also, if you go back and watch a race, be it GP, WSBK or AMA you'll notice the outside foot is almost always relaxed. By that I mean they slide their outside foot forward on the peg so their heel locks onto the peg.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furad View Post
I experimented with this a lot all through the season. The conclusion that I came to is that you can't actually put weight on the outside peg if you're hanging off and leaned over. When you're leaned over your outside knee is holding a lot of the weight and if you're like me your outside foot is barely resting on the peg.

So basically, I just forgot about weighting the pegs and focused on good foot position.

Also, if you go back and watch a race, be it GP, WSBK or AMA you'll notice the outside foot is almost always relaxed. By that I mean they slide their outside foot forward on the peg so their heel locks onto the peg.
I'm gona have to try the outside knee. TOTW2 does talk about starting to shift the pivot point gradually on the outside leg and work down to the peg...

But it sounds like I should get myself to not put most of the weight on the inner peg anyway? When I lean, I'm also picking my body up a bit so to use my legs as part of the shock system which does bring down the center of gravity. This also is how I get comfortable putting weight on the inner peg.

I'll be experimenting some more today!


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Old 12-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akiraruns View Post
I'm gona have to try the outside knee. TOTW2 does talk about starting to shift the pivot point gradually on the outside leg and work down to the peg...

But it sounds like I should get myself to not put most of the weight on the inner peg anyway? When I lean, I'm also picking my body up a bit so to use my legs as part of the shock system which does bring down the center of gravity. This also is how I get comfortable putting weight on the inner peg.

I'll be experimenting some more today!


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I found that I ended up weighting the inside peg no matter what. Get your outside knee locked into the tank and try not to worry about weighting the pegs.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furad View Post
I experimented with this a lot all through the season. The conclusion that I came to is that you can't actually put weight on the outside peg if you're hanging off and leaned over. When you're leaned over your outside knee is holding a lot of the weight and if you're like me your outside foot is barely resting on the peg.

So basically, I just forgot about weighting the pegs and focused on good foot position.

Also, if you go back and watch a race, be it GP, WSBK or AMA you'll notice the outside foot is almost always relaxed. By that I mean they slide their outside foot forward on the peg so their heel locks onto the peg.
Peg Location makes all the differnence, On dirt bikes outside peg weigting works to maintain corner traction, by placing weight on the rear of the bike, inside peg weighting does does nothing. But on sport bikes, they already have rear swept pegs, which more easily weights the rear of the bike, so inside peg weighting, does as well, or actually better on rear swept peg set ups. In essence, outside weighting on more forward peg setups, very usable. rearward peg setups on sport bikes, inside peg weighting very usable.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furad View Post
I found that I ended up weighting the inside peg no matter what. Get your outside knee locked into the tank and try not to worry about weighting the pegs.
Had a long canyon day today. I just focused on pushing down on the outside peg on each turn. I felt the weight on my knee as well. Traction wise, it felt really good as the roads were wet in certain places and I had no slip on turns that I used this method.


Along with other cornering methods I learned on TOTW2, I've never felt as much in control of the bike!!!


Btw, 2 riders in my group went down today... They were semi-beginners and Low speed, everybody is in one piece so still a good day! NEVER slam front brake in the middle of a wet corner! Or any corner for that matter. Lol


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Old 12-10-2012, 11:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akiraruns View Post
Let me hear from the riders that actually use this technique or have used compared to something else and know the difference.


I found a prev thread discussing the pivot steering vs. swerving when avoiding pothole or any quick maneuvering. I'd like to touch more in detail of what it is and how it's done in cornering.

I understand that by putting your weight in the outer peg, it provides better traction/balance/control of the bike due to lower center of gravity(at the pivot point) and also freeing up other pivot points like handle bars, gas tank, seat, etc. will allow you to steer more quickly and precisely.


Do I have it just about right in theory? anything to be corrected or added?


For the part of actually putting this together in action, (I've only practiced in streets and canyons so nothing high speed) I seem to find myself more at ease putting my weight on the inner peg. This is due to the body positioning when I'm hanging off of the bike into the corner, the center of my body is above the inner peg.


How does it actually feel to pivot steer?
Should I feel more like I'm pushing the bike away from my body (stand it upright) with my outter leg?
Is what I'm doing now(weight on inner peg) a bad move?

Hey guys I went through this in California Superbike School levels 2 and 3. Pivot steering should only be used during the initial counter steering of the bike. It locks your outer theigh/knee into the tank. If your having trouble locking in try doing a "calf raise" on the outside peg and that should help lock you in/pivot steer even more. After counter steering your weight will move to the inside peg, and you can relax your outside leg. Pivot steering really only does two things. it locks your thigh/knee into the bike which will give you less bar pressure and it moves your weight to the inside of the bike.

Akira it shouldn't feel as if your pushing the bike away from your body. Try doing the "calf raise" with your outside foot while your weighing the peg and you should feel locked in with your body weight to the inside of the bike. After counter steering you can then relax and "go with the bike". Your weight will transfer to the inside peg. The only other time you need to weight the outside peg is on acceleration during corner exit for maxium traction.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:28 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAZX6R View Post
Hey guys I went through this in California Superbike School levels 2 and 3. Pivot steering should only be used during the initial counter steering of the bike. It locks your outer theigh/knee into the tank. If your having trouble locking in try doing a "calf raise" on the outside peg and that should help lock you in/pivot steer even more. After counter steering your weight will move to the inside peg, and you can relax your outside leg. Pivot steering really only does two things. it locks your thigh/knee into the bike which will give you less bar pressure and it moves your weight to the inside of the bike.

Akira it shouldn't feel as if your pushing the bike away from your body. Try doing the "calf raise" with your outside foot while your weighing the peg and you should feel locked in with your body weight to the inside of the bike. After counter steering you can then relax and "go with the bike". Your weight will transfer to the inside peg. The only other time you need to weight the outside peg is on acceleration during corner exit for maxium traction.
Good explanation. That all makes sense.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAZX6R View Post
Hey guys I went through this in California Superbike School levels 2 and 3. Pivot steering should only be used during the initial counter steering of the bike. It locks your outer theigh/knee into the tank. If your having trouble locking in try doing a "calf raise" on the outside peg and that should help lock you in/pivot steer even more. After counter steering your weight will move to the inside peg, and you can relax your outside leg. Pivot steering really only does two things. it locks your thigh/knee into the bike which will give you less bar pressure and it moves your weight to the inside of the bike.

Akira it shouldn't feel as if your pushing the bike away from your body. Try doing the "calf raise" with your outside foot while your weighing the peg and you should feel locked in with your body weight to the inside of the bike. After counter steering you can then relax and "go with the bike". Your weight will transfer to the inside peg. The only other time you need to weight the outside peg is on acceleration during corner exit for maxium traction.
Oh man that clears it up so much!!!!
I plan on taking that couse too, as well as start track days this year(2013) take my game up a few notches...

I appreciate the info!


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Old 12-11-2012, 09:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akiraruns View Post
Oh man that clears it up so much!!!!
I plan on taking that couse too, as well as start track days this year(2013) take my game up a few notches...

I appreciate the info!


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Anytime man, your going to have a blast in the class!
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Pivot steering helps make the lower body stable by locking in with the outside knee/leg on the tank (which is one reason why so many riders like tank grips). That in turn helps stabilize the rider's hips for a good foundation. Hips unstable=less power. Think of having oil on your seat and what problems that could create while steering. Having your lower body very stable helps with steering power and accuracy. I'm a coach at the Superbike School and that is a very condensed version of what we are talking about.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Code View Post
I'm a coach at the Superbike School and that is a very condensed version of what we are talking about.
Pretty sure your last name gave that away.
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